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Movement in terrain

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by HooperJ, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. HooperJ

    HooperJ Chieftain

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    Hello,

    And I would like to first say I think that the feature of slower movement through desert and snow is a very innovative one and very realistic, so I welcome this approach very much.

    I would like to make the proposition that movement over terrain to be like that in Civ 6; any terrain taking more than 1 movement point to traverse would require the unit to have at least that many movement points to traverse to, this I feel is more realistic i.e. if your unit hadn't enough energy left to climb a hill, they couldn't end the turn on that hill, the same goes for crossing rivers.

    This would make hills, and rivers, much more strategic locations (as in real life) - if melee attackers were approaching your fort on a hill/across a river, but didn't have enough energy to climb/cross it that turn, they wouldn't be able to assault it.

    To quote Civ 6 wiki: “Each of the costs now round down, instead of previous games where the movement would round up, meaning that if a unit has a single movement left and the Terrain costs more than 1, the unit will be unable to move there. Open terrain, like Plains and Grassland, only consume 1 movement point, whereas more difficult terrain, like Woods and Hills, will consume 2 or more movement points."

    For balancing concerns:
    1. This may raise whether certain terrain must also have a significant defensive bonus. For example, should a hill provide 25% protection if it is already harder to reach the top? Some would argue yes it should be an advantage, as the height provides strategic vantage point in battle. Though it could be argued that a forest would be much more justified to have a defensive bonus because of the cover in terrain. Perhaps some terrain's protective bonuses could be reduced with this movement change, and / or removing defensive bonus 'stacking'. Forest/jungle should definitely have increased protection from ranged attacks. Something to consider.
    2. Unit promotions could be added for combating the challenges faced with terrain:
    • Something like 'Hill climbing' that allows to enter a hill tile as if it were flat - this could be attained as a more innovative and realistic promotion for recon units (scouts) - as I feel like the scout's current promotions of increased movement in forest / desert aren't particularly realistic - as why can't they also move faster on open land?? The promotion could also be attained by travelling to Mr kilimanjaro, or just a mountain?
    • The 'Amphibious' promotion could be edited or adapted to allow units ease of crossing rivers when need arises. Civilisation's unique units / just units could be gifted these if they are a water-based Civ e.g. Denmark or Songhai.
    • I don't necessarily see there being a realistic forest-traversing promotion, though there is of course the current 'woodsman' promotion. Could be argued that in history, some civ's were more adept at travelling through jungle / forest using machetes.
    • Another cool idea I've thought of, is - if a city is built on a hill, units trained there gain 'hill-climbing', or on a river 'amphibious', or related names.
    • This though of course raises the concerns that hill-river cities become superior, a situation of 'optimal-ness' Vox Populi aims to avoid. Though, it also creates very unique and exciting opportunities for strategic decisions when settling and building forts / citadels in certain map situations, or just when in 'stand-offs' between units e.g. if archers are on their own, a hill gives opportunity to stand their ground and attack back rather than continually fleeing, as enemies have to prepare to climb it or retreat.
    • Perhaps knowledge from the implementation of Civ 6 could be used to advise balancing of this.
    Please discuss!

    Thank you,
    Hooper

    'Disclaimer' for anyone curious, I have not played civ 6, though I remember seeing this movement feature in a promotional video, and liked it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  2. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    This is one of those areas where I will vote gameplay over realism. While I agree the Civ 6 model is more realistic, it makes it exceptionally less fun. The game becomes slower, especially scouting.

    This was one of my least favorite changes in Civ 6, so I vote a very strong no to this change.
     
    Galbias, balinte and vyyt like this.
  3. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Chieftain

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    No i hate civ 6 movement rules. It s a chore to chase or just to move your unit.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  4. Strigvir

    Strigvir Chieftain

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    Civ6 made sure any unit which isn't cavalry is irrelevant, so a big no.
     
  5. StugLife

    StugLife Chieftain

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    I disagree as well. It was super annoying when you had units with movement left but nowhere to move them, having to either move them back and forth or click that skip turn button for almost every unit every turn. One thing I do agree though, is the scouts moving faster in forests than in flat terrain thing. Makes no sense whatsoever. The vanilla way of just ignoring terrain movement cost was way better realism-wise. But that´s a minor gripe and I can live with the current way.
     
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  6. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    There's a thing I may agree. Scouts fast movement for trees is quite unrealistic (how comes he moves faster on forest than on flat terrain?). I'd rather have scouts with base movement 3, and then promotions to ignore trees/rivers/deserts movement penalties.
     
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  7. HooperJ

    HooperJ Chieftain

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    I hear the consensus, and, though I sort of knew this wouldn't be a quickly-picked up suggestion, despite that I haven't played civ 6, I still enjoy discussion, and pointing out improvements to realisticness of gameplay.
    Anyone know if there is currently a Recon unit promotion balance thread?
    And thanks for reading.
     
  8. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    There was, but you can open a new one, or ask for renaming this one.
     
  9. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Warlord

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    Important remark : even if a majority of person liked this idea, it would probably never be implemented in VP, because it would need a major AI rework on how to move units efficiently during a war.
    (And moreover, the tactical AI is the same in CP-only and in full-VP, and such a gameplay change would clearly never be implemented in CP)
     
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  10. southblade

    southblade Chieftain

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    you never saw George of the Jungle?
     
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  11. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Chieftain

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    How about on snow and desert?
     
  12. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    you never saw Drizzt of Menzoberranzan?
     
  13. HooperJ

    HooperJ Chieftain

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    Obviously when they get the snow / desert promotion is when they invent sleds / skis / dune buggies :) (wind pulled dune buggies of course, if you've read The Wind On Fire trilogy).
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017

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