Moving from Marathon to Normal Speed

[Smilingrogue]

Hello fellow Civfanatics, I come asking for help.
I used to be a Huge/Marathon player. The epic scope of Huge/Marathon appealed to me initially and I started out on that setting. I got a hang of the game and moved up from Noble to Monarch. But I never finished a game!! I always get bogged down by Huge/Marathon and even when I get to a good position that can be leveraged into a win, I just give up and start over.

I recently decided that while the epic scope of Huge/Marathon is all fine and dandy, getting bored playing it is probably not the best way to have fun. So I moved to Normal speed and Standard map size, kept the difficulty at Monarch and boy did the game get fun fast!

I found Normal/Standard far easier than Marathon/Huge. Barbs on N/S are almost a non-factor. (They are massive PITA on H/M with tons of land for them to spawn in and even archery taking ages to research and archers taking eons to build. Not having metal meant guaranteed death to a horde of Barb Axemen who spawn faster than chariots and archers can be whipped.) The timing in the game is way different as well. On H/M Judaism could still be on the table even after the average cities per civ hit three. Four for Imperial leaders. But on N/S, Judaism seems to go right out of the gate. (Not that I am complaining, mind you. If Pacal wants to spend his beakers on Masonry and Polytheism, that’s his prerogative )

Ah… but I have rambled on far too long. I come seeking help! My sense of timing on N/S is completely off. I am a bit of a warmonger and I am having a hard time fighting wars on this setting. I keep up really well in expansion and tech. But when it comes to war, I can’t seem to catch a break.

I tried Elizabeth for faster GS and higher tech rate to get a tech lead and got to Redcoats. But that war seemed to have hit a wall. Restarted as Ragnar, tried an axe rush, hit a wall. Ok, maybe infantry war doesn’t work on N/S, so I tried Genghis Khan. Keshik, meet brick wall, brick wall, meet Keshik.

So obviously I am making horrible calls on when to war. (I got the how part down, I sent more cannons than Redcoats in that Lizzy game ) So I decided to go back to a leader I enjoyed playing a lot, Asoka.

Spoiler :

Why Asoka? He is Spiritual. I like to swap Civics. I swap between Caste System and Slavery often. I swap Civs as the situation demands too. Spiritual rocks! Organised because I tend to rex, overextend even, in the early game and Organised helps keep me afloat even if the land is not best for cottaging. It of course helps with keeping the bills down when I go on a conquering spree later. And fast worker is an amazing UU. I am guessing it will only get better now that I moved to Standard Speed.

Starting techs are Mining and Mysticism. Mining is great as it allows quicker Bronze Working and Slavery civic. Mysticism is not the best starting tech, but can’t complain about being able to chop/whip Monuments in new cities.

The settings:

Spoiler :

Why Hemispheres? I would like to learn how to handle intercontinental warfare and felt Hemispheres is a good map to do it on. A few games I played on this script produced nice island chains and that should teach me to keep an eye out for settling them and building a navy.

And the start I received:

Spoiler :

Upon closer examination, I hear waves and based on the direction the rivers are flowing, I am guessing the coast wraps around this way:

Spoiler :

I am tempted to settle in place. Don't see any reason to move. Only warrior to 1 NW seems to reveal something we don't currently see, but we will have to settle on a forest and lose a turn if we choose to move that way.

First build – Fast Worker.
Research path – Agriculture for the wet corn and farming the Flood Plains. Will decide on the next tech after the SIP reveals more.

Advise, Critique and thoughts welcome and thank you for your time

 

[Marcvs Avrelivs]

I would say settle in place as well, but I'm more inclined to cottage the FPs That seems to be a decent bureau capital there, so long as you get the cottages online, but that's just my opinion

Regarding the change of speed from Mara to Normal, it just takes a small amount of time to get used to; I would say two or three games.

Might shadow, would post in spoilers, if you wouldn't mind?

 

[Smilingrogue]

I would say settle in place as well, but I'm more inclined to cottage the FPs That seems to be a decent bureau capital there, so long as you get the cottages online, but that's just my opinion

Regarding the change of speed from Mara to Normal, it just takes a small amount of time to get used to; I would say two or three games.

Might shadow, would post in spoilers, if you wouldn't mind?

A few turns down the road, once Pottery tech is in, I am likely going to cottage the FPs as well. But short term, farms on them seem the best play if we don't find anything but the hills to improve.

Please feel free to shadow and post your thoughts. I am trying to learn and the more advice, the better.

 

[pigswill]

Not sure those are coastal tiles. Sip, ag>BW worker>warrior seems pretty obvious.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Since the opening seemed obvious enough as Pigswill pointed out, I went ahead and played a few turns.

Turn 0 -> Starting Warrior was moved one North to reveal Wine. Settler told to settle Delhi [C] in place.
(I use notations [C], [F] and [P] to keep track of a city's purpose. [C] is a commerce city, [F] is a food city and [P] is a production city).

Spoiler :

Boy did I get the whole coast wraparound thing wrong!

Settling reveals Elephants. We have two potential early happiness resources already. Wine needs monarchy and it can be had early if we need it via teching for Oracle. But that's still a while down the road. I never assume I can land Oracle and usually don't even try for it.

Build set to Fast Worker and Tech set to Agriculture -> Hunting -> Animal Husbandry.
Agriculture is an obvious tech choice. Hunting for the elephants and Animal Husbandry as we will need it later to develop those Sheep and I want to reveal Horse to plan future settlements. Hunting also allows me to tech to Archery later if we find the map generator thinks Elephants are enough 'strategic resources' for us.

Spoiler :

Sent the warrior to explore Eastward. Turn 8, Buddhism founded in a distant land. Our exploring warrior reveals we are near the South Pole.

Fast Worker finishes on Turn 15. Set build to a warrior and start improving the Corn.

T18 - Hinduism founded in a distant land. That seems late. Might be only one Mysticism civ out there or some one changed from Meditation to Polytheism. But that's neither here nor there. What is here though is my riverside corn is up and I set the worker to spam farms on the Flood Plains surrounding Delhi [C]

Delhi [C] has the potential to be a killer Bureaucracy capital. 15 riverside tiles. Not too many flood plains that can cause health problems and the surrounding land seems production heavy allowing the cap to just focus on getting commerce.

T 24- > AH reveals we have horse in accessible location if we want it. But it's a very poor location.

Spoiler :

Forgot to mention we have gold right next door. Loving this map. Plan to settle a Production city right next to Delhi which will work Cottages to the East of Cap while Delhi grows into them and later become a solid production city with green watermills and hills.

T28 -> Warrior build in Delhi [C] finishes. He is sent to explore West. My first worker is still building farms but Delhi is out growing improvements. I set another worker in the que.

T31 -> Our first warrior exploring North reveals a tile of Jungle and promptly dies to a Panther. Will explore there down the road as one jungle tile might mean more jungle tiles.

T35 -> Bronze Working finished. I immediately switched to Slavery. We are Spiritual, so no anarchy and we have nothing to lose and lots to gain by switching.
But the more interesting revelation is Huayana Capac is next door. He founded Buddhism and is eight tiles away from Delhi if I am reading his culture borders correctly.
And I stopped there for more advice.

This is the land scouted so far and my tentative dot map

Spoiler :

We have Horse and Copper in easy access if we really want to take them. Neither city settled to harvest them is looking great. But they will serve their purpose adequately and we can turn them into decent cities down the road.

I am debating on settling the second city towards HC either on the elephants west of Delhi or 1 S of the elephants. Though I am not sure if that's advisable as his holy city culture will take away the rice and we might never see it.

Spoiler :

My thoughts are to tech to archery as neither strategic resource is in a great spot, get settlers out and settle peacefully till we have enough coverage on Delhi's river tiles and spam cottages.

Of course, if rushing HC is advised, I am up for it. I am playing this game to learn warfare on the Normal speed setting after all

Thank you for reading and please feel free to chime in

 

[Um the Muse]

Heh, this should be a good thread for me to follow. I'm still working on transitioning. Part of my problem is that I abandon games on standard maps too. Everything feels more cramped and not as interesting.

Good luck with your game!

Edit: you almost always want food in the first ring. It's hard to emphasize the value of food when your city is brand-spankin' new. On the other hand, dry rice isn't much of a food resource (a farmed food/pain gives as much food as this resource, are you joking?). If you build a city here, keep in mind that it will be for denial purposes only.

I think that the spot marked "P" to the NNW of your capital should be 1 tile to the right so that it can use the capital's corn. The other option might be 1S of the food/pain. If you build it third, your capital's border should include that sheep.

The city 3E of the capital is an absolutely horrible spot. Remember: Inner ring food! You are not using a CRE leader; don't pretend he is! Moving that spot 2S, though, makes for a great commerce city. Double gold and just enough food to work them (farm the food/pain) in the short term, plenty of riverside grass tiles in the long run. Either way will make the city valuable.

The other city looks good.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Heh, this should be a good thread for me to follow. I'm still working on transitioning. Part of my problem is that I abandon games on standard maps too. Everything feels more cramped and not as interesting.

Good luck with your game!

Thank you, I hope to learn and have some fun.

Edit: you almost always want food in the first ring. It's hard to emphasize the value of food when your city is brand-spankin' new. On the other hand, dry rice isn't much of a food resource (a farmed food/pain gives as much food as this resource, are you joking?). If you build a city here, keep in mind that it will be for denial purposes only.

Rice is horrible for its yield value, but it still stacks with granary, never can have too much health. And I am looking to settle that way to close HC in. I seem to have a lot of nice land to settle to the East that I would like to monopolise.

I think that the spot marked "P" to the NNW of your capital should be 1 tile to the right so that it can use the capital's corn. The other option might be 1S of the food/pain. If you build it third, your capital's border should include that sheep.

The city 3E of the capital is an absolutely horrible spot. Remember: Inner ring food! You are not using a CRE leader; don't pretend he is! Moving that spot 2S, though, makes for a great commerce city. Double gold and just enough food to work them (farm the food/pain) in the short term, plenty of riverside grass tiles in the long run. Either way will make the city valuable.

The other city looks good.

Sorry! I thought the screen shot captured all the territory I explored. But there's more to the East.

Spoiler :

Normally, I try to have food heavy cities. But the start I got is just plain ridiculous. The best thing to do here is to cottage it all up and make sure every single cottage is worked at all times from as early as possible. The city three East of Delhi is basically a junk city. The sole reason it exists is to work five cottages till Delhi is ready to take them on. It helps that the city is not a total lost cause and has good hills, greenery and gold to continue to be useful even after it served its primary purpose.

The new screen shot shows that there is cow and rice in easy access of the two golds and city settled there can work all four tiles and have food to spare.

But I am more likely to settle a city one off the coast (ZOMG!! I know! ) and capture cow, horse and gold with it. (Unless the horse has a sea food not yet revealed.) A second city on the desert somewhere to take the other gold and rice.

The reason I do this is because I view every city as just one library, just four happy capped entity. Giving one two food resources will probably let it hit the happy cap sooner and get the scientists out faster, but it is just one library and just two scientists when all is said and done. I find having more manpower is better than having better potential for manpower. At least in the early stages when cities struggle to reach even six pop due to happiness constraints. The city N NW is going to be dedicated to building troops. It has enough food and some to spare to grow onto all the hills available to it. If it does nothing all late game except build garrison troops or wealth, that's alright. It did its job in the here and now. The city three East of Delhi is similar. If it ends up being generic city # 8 that can't grow due to low food, that's alright. It built the cottages for Delhi to print money off of.

And I never give a city two gold. It ties up two citizens and commits four food. Better to share multiple golds between multiple cities. 12 citizens producing 10 commerce (city maintenance costs!) is better for me than 6 citizens producing 12 commerce. The extra citizens are man power for working farms, mines, specialists or just whip fodder. That same line of thinking caused me to leave the corn alone for now. I could squeeze another city in West of Wine to work it when Delhi is in full cottage mode. But that may not be optimal. Organised means we can build cities left, right and center without too much hassle and reap the full manpower of each one of them.

Wow, wall of text! Hope my thinking isn't wrong. I would love to learn if I am and thank you for your feed back, um the muse

 

[Um the Muse]

That is certainly a different way of playing than what I normally do, but I can see how that might work well.

Any plans for that stone? If you don't go for it fast, it loses a lot of its value, imo. I like stone for either Pyramids or Hanging Gardens (depending on my other goals and whether I think that I can build them on time), but walls aren't usually important and castles need walls (and they obsolete).

Unless you know something that I can't see in the screenshot, horse city doesn't get cows. I personally wouldn't go for the gold in that situation. I do agree that one off the coast is not that big of a deal in general, though

Helper cities that are meant to develop cottages for your capital are good. That said, the location that I suggested (2S of where it is now) will let you work four cottages and still have 3 food surplus per turn. How about 1 gold and 1 grass hill?

Production cities (and GP farms) need food resources much more than other cities do. Still, you should be ok. You can farm tiles for whipping citizens as needed for a long time.

You said that you like to think of your cities as size four entities. Is that the case even with luxuries? Ivory and gold within your own lands +1 if you build forges (+1 another if you build markets, but I don't recommend them at this stage) and you have extra resources that you can trade.

Btw, it's kind of funny how you're only rubbing shoulders against a single AI. You have so much room to expand into, it's not even funny.

 

[Smilingrogue]

@ um the Muse

My strategy for playing Civ has always been to have a bunch of good cities instead of a few 'awesome' cities. That doesn't mean I don't specialise. I do build GP farms with tonnes of food for them to exploit. I have looked for cities that will make good OU cities down the road, etc. But my game plan tends towards having three cities that can make a Crossbowman in two turns each than focusing on finding that one city with Heroic Epic, Iron works, Military academy and all those bells and whistles, which can build maces in one turn. I will settle such super cities if I can get them. If not, I will take the three cities, thank you very much

Now in this map, we don't seem to have a super city available to us. The only 5+ food resource we have seen so far is in the cap. Rice and Cow don't exactly make for a lot of surplus food, even when stacked. So in maps like this, I think building a bigger empire with compact cities is better in the long haul than building a compact empire with larger cities. And by endgame, there are enough techs and civs to drag every city, but the junkiest of iceballs into a good position, anyway. Our Organised trait should help with the maintenance. At least that's the theory. If I fail spectacularly, lesson learned.

Moving the Horse city one East gets Horse, Cow and one Gold.
No plans for the stone. Pyramids are frankly amazing to have as Spiritual. (Five turn swaps into Police State, Theo, Vasslage and Slavery for a massive round of whipping; and then going back to Rep, Caste, Organised Religion is a nice tool to have.) But that stone is too far away to be of use. The only way I can see for getting pyramids now is to send a settler and settle on the stone and chop a pyramid in that city using the trees around it. I am guessing our shot at that is zero since the very first AI we met is Industrious. Not worth the hassle.

Since I don't seem to be generating much feedback, I am going to plow through this game the way I see fit. If I screw up, cest la vie. (I am going to move the other city next to Delhi south as utm suggested, though keeping the rest of the dotmap intact for now). Thank you for your comments, utm

What the map has dealt us:

• A bur cap with fifteen riverside tiles.
• A neighbour who is Industrious, so should build us some wonders.
• A map that is looking good on happy, but very food poor. Cow and Rice? Sparsely spread out?
• Bunch of hills and riversides for mines and watermills.

What I intend to do with it:

• Focus on cottages and develop them. (I usually HATE cottages. They are far too restrictive. But play the map we have, I guess.)
• Settle Peacefully with the intent of closing HC off from expanding towards East.
• Build towards Elepults and hope HC builds the gigantic, pointy tomb thingy for us
• Explore and find more trading partners. There's gotta be at least one other Civ on this landmass.

Will play now. Thank you for reading

 

[Smilingrogue]

Turns 35- 71

Turn 35 -> I set research to Pottery via wheel and hit end turn

Spoiler :

During the end turn, my warrior who found HC gets attacked by a Barb wolf, I move him onto a forest SW for better protection while healing and discover silk!

Spoiler :

The amount of happiness in easy reach scares me. It all feels like a setup to "Haha! There's Shaka and Ragnar on the other side of HC and oh, Justinian peace vassaled Isabella on the other continent and launches his spaceship in three turns. Sucks to be you!"

T37 - 39, I build two warriors, send one to scout the Horse area to the south while the other garrisons Delhi for keeping the citizens happy. Next build is Stonehenge for fail gold.

T41 - Delhi hits size six. I insert a settler into the queue before the Stonehenge.

T42 - Settler whipped for 3 pop, overflow going into Stone henge.

T43 - Settler sent to settle the N NW sheep spot to block off HC. Warrior sent south to reveal the horse area finds fur!

Spoiler :

T45 - Mumbai [P] founded. Both Fast Workers improving near Delhi are now redirected to the new city. Delhi has enough tiles to work at happy cap. One FW goes to improve Sheep while another builds a mine on the tiles taken away from Delhi. The settling screenshot didn't come out. But here's another

Spoiler :

Build in Mumbai set to warrior. This city will produce archers for garrison and early spawn-busting and exploration duties. It will later build barracks and become my early military town. Not an awesome city, but it will do for now.
Er, what's this?

Spoiler :

Why, yes, this surely is insanity, madness, devilry and witchcraft!! Excuse me for being melodramatic, but I have never had a map give me these many happy resources in easy access without having to go through a jungle.

T48 - Pottery tech finishes. Archery set as next research for barb busting. Delhi inserts a granary build before the Stonehenge.

T49 - Warrior exploring near horse reveals fish thankfully. That city will not be a complete lost cause doomed to building wealth at two pop for eternity.

Spoiler :

Need to whip a monument there though.

T50 - Mumbai sheep pasture is done, worker starts roads back to Delhi for Trade routes and access to sheep. End turn brings excellent news:

Spoiler :

Oh yeah? I read 'The Prince', Machiavelli! And it sucked!!

T52 - I turn research down to 20% as archery finishes in 1 turn regardless. This gives me 15 gold. Delhi got to size six. Settler inserted before the Stonehenge build.

T 53 - Archery is finished. Mumbai [P] grew to size 2 and built a warrior. I set it non-stop archers. There are bunch of trees I need to knock down near Delhi for cottages. I need Monarchy tech to harvest the Wine for happiness. So I set research to Priesthood via meditation. We need Priesthood for Monarchy anyway, so I plan to chop out oracle.
At 100% Science, we lose 1 gold a turn and get to priesthood in 11 turns. I have 15 gold in bank. Settler in Delhi whipped for three pop and Overflow directed to the granary.

T 54 - I start converting Delhi FP farms to cottages. Settler sent south to claim the Fur and silver spot and to block HC completely off.

T 56 - Kolkata [P] founded. Not an amazing city, but it can get cows, fur and silver with a monument. First build is monument.

Spoiler :

T 57 - SH failgold arrives. 51 gold should see me through writing at -4 gold/turn at 100% research.

T 58 - Delhi grows to size 5, worker queued. Mumbai to 3, still diligently building archers. The more important news is that Judaism was founded this turn in a distant land.

T59 - Priesthood completes and Delhi whips the Worker for 2 pop, overflows into Oracle.

T60 - Louis XIV's archer meets our archer heading North for barb busting. Two Industrious AIs? Fail gold, here I come!

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Kolkata grew to size 2 this turn and I was dumb and instead of whipping the monument decided to switch builds to granary. Should have continued with monument if I didn't want to whip without a granary.
The two Fast Workers in Delhi area now attack the riverside forests for chopping the Oracle. Writing finishes in three turns.

T66 - Joao II's archer meets our archer heading out to explore HC's lands.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Only three cities? I surely am in Twilight zone.
Unless there's a nutty ocean culture spread access point somewhere, these are all the civs we will meet before Optics. Standard has 7 civs and Hemispheres splits them 4 and 3 per continent. I wish there were even numbered Civs, but I was scared I might screw up the game balance and refused to add another Civ in. I open borders with everyone we met. Research is set to Maths and I drop slider to zero to build up gold to gun for it.

Why Math? It opens up Construction for Elepults. It also allows calendar for any happiness and health we might find in the Jungle. But I am going math as it opens up Civil Service for spreading irrigation and of course, Bureaucracy.

T68 - Mumbai grows to size three and stops archers and starts a monument. I have enough archers for garrison and spawn busting. Need to let Mumbai grow and pop borders. Research set back to 100% for math.

T 70 - Mumbai finishes monument and starts on Barracks. I finally kick myself about Kolkata's granary build and just switch back to monument and whip it. Should have done this when I had the chance earlier as HC's culture is creeping upto the cows Kolkata needs. Oracle about to finish, I send the Delhi workers back to cottaging.

T 71 - I micro citizens to get Oracle in 1 and get Delhi to grow to 6 on the same turn. Delhi will be unhappy for one turn, but that's fine.

Spoiler :

I stop here to see if anyone has something to say about the game so far. This is the land I explored so far:

Spoiler :

What I know of HC's lands:

Spoiler :

My tech, researching Math currently:

Spoiler :

Diplomacy:

Spoiler :

Louis hasn't met HC yet. But everyone should meet everyone soon enough. I am guessing this continent will go Buddhist.

Finally, this is what Oracle offers:

Spoiler :

I am tempted to take Code of Laws with it. It founds Confucianism. I don't want to found Confu, but it could be useful diplo-wise to have another religion at our disposal. And I want CoL primarily for Civil Service.

Thoughts and critique welcome. Thank you for reading

 

[cbucks]

You have a ton of land and highcommerce sites. Horse archer rush whomever builds all the wonders. Build gold, fish, horse next. That fur city is no good except to raise happy cap

 

[Teoes]

I think you should build a couple of quick scouts and send them off to explore Louis' & Joao's lands. Once you've got a better idea of the make-up of the continent you can better plan on how you can make it all yours. So, do you rush a neighbour and take all their land, or do you block Louis off and then peacefully settle all that land, for a later breakout? Depends partly on what your neighbours are sitting on but personally I'd be tempted to not bother rushing if I've got so much land all to myself. If the AIs are squashed in, all the better.

Whatever you choose I think you should settle Eastward next and as far North as is reasonable in order to block Louis.

Finally and again personally I'd have not bothered teching Archery; settle near copper instead, tech some trade-bait and get Archery off an AI. Probably would've self-teched Hunting though for early happy off the Ivory. As you know however, happy isn't an issue on this map. Looks like you'll be having fun.

 

[pigswill]

With an organised leader CoL for cheap courthouses and rex could be the way to go. Having industrious neighbours is nice, hopefully they'll but hammers into wonders rather than units or settlers.

 

[Smilingrogue]

You have a ton of land and highcommerce sites. Horse archer rush whomever builds all the wonders. Build gold, fish, horse next. That fur city is no good except to raise happy cap

Gold and Horse are the next cities on the list. I do intend to take over my entire continent. But since there's enough land around to settle peacefully, I am leaning towards leaving the Industrious Civs alone for them to build some shiny things for me.

I think you should build a couple of quick scouts and send them off to explore Louis' & Joao's lands. Once you've got a better idea of the make-up of the continent you can better plan on how you can make it all yours. So, do you rush a neighbour and take all their land, or do you block Louis off and then peacefully settle all that land, for a later breakout? Depends partly on what your neighbours are sitting on but personally I'd be tempted to not bother rushing if I've got so much land all to myself. If the AIs are squashed in, all the better.

Whatever you choose I think you should settle Eastward next and as far North as is reasonable in order to block Louis.

Finally and again personally I'd have not bothered teching Archery; settle near copper instead, tech some trade-bait and get Archery off an AI. Probably would've self-teched Hunting though for early happy off the Ivory. As you know however, happy isn't an issue on this map. Looks like you'll be having fun.

Archers are already out on scouting missions to the Civs on this continent. I am tempted to rex for now. Better I build cities from ground up with useful stuff than have the AI place them in worse spots and build Forge in a village surrounded by plains.

As for teching Archery, that's a problem I want to figure out. On Marathon, troops cost twice as many hammers, but the base tile yields are the same for all speeds. Research is thrice as costly and Barbs have a 400% spawn chance as opposed to normal's 100%
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7673465&postcount=25

I usually get three cities up by turn 175 on marathon. A good starter city needs about 100 turns to just grow to happy cap and then it gets whipped down again for workers and settlers. Since barbs get a heckuva lot more active once Civs have three cities, that means I have one whipped down, often food heavy capital and two fledglings completely open to being swamped.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7473286&postcount=16

That has taught me to gun for archery early unless I have copper either right next to the cap or even in cap's BFC. But the few normal speed games I have played so far appear to be far easier with regards to barbs. So I am going to start teching archery only when I need to HA rush or when barbs actually show up at the gates, so to speak

With an organised leader CoL for cheap courthouses and rex could be the way to go. Having industrious neighbours is nice, hopefully they'll but hammers into wonders rather than units or settlers.

Taking CoL. I don't like founding a second religion. But Courthouses are good for organised. Time to rex into the land.

Thank you for the comments, guys

 

[goldys_lackey]

Taking CoL was the best option, I think. Where did you send your missionary? Send him to a war target (HC by the looks of it would be first up). Spread religion in the nearest best city of his, for later. You don't have a lot of food for whipping in your cities, so city revolts via espionage will save you the need for building siege and you will get a discount in that city because you have the confucian holy city (and any other cities confucianism spreads to).

A few turns down the road, once Pottery tech is in, I am likely going to cottage the FPs as well. But short term, farms on them seem the best play if we don't find anything but the hills to improve.

that's 12 worker turns per flood plain . I would have opened Ag-BW to grow onto mines and chop worker-settlers. Fast workers are great for this because you can move into a flat forest and start chopping immediately.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Taking CoL was the best option, I think. Where did you send your missionary? Send him to a war target (HC by the looks of it would be first up). Spread religion in the nearest best city of his, for later. You don't have a lot of food for whipping in your cities, so city revolts via espionage will save you the need for building siege and you will get a discount in that city because you have the confucian holy city (and any other cities confucianism spreads to).

I played a session before I read this. The missionary is still chilling in the holy city. I am planning on using him to spread Confu around to my cities as Bud won't spread to me and I could use a religion.

that's 12 worker turns per flood plain . I would have opened Ag-BW to grow onto mines and chop worker-settlers. Fast workers are great for this because you can move into a flat forest and start chopping immediately.

Hmmm.... Didn't think of chopping the forests for settlers and workers. I usually whip heavily, so prefer to have a food heavy start. So, is it better when we have flood plains to just shoot towards Pottery and not build farms on them in the interim?

 

[Smilingrogue]

Turns 71 - 103

Turn 71 - I start the session by picking up Code of Laws off the Oracle.

Spoiler :

It found Confucianism in Mumbai. I would have preferred the holy city to be Kolkata, but them's the breaks.

Spoiler :

Fast or slow, three is too few workers. Delhi starts up a worker and will whip it for two pop next turn. I put the missionary Confu gives me to sleep in Mumbai. I don't want to spread it around to my cities. Would rather spread to an AI. Will figure out later what to do with the missionary. I turn down the offer to adopt Confucianism. We can always switch with ease for diplomacy or other factors. But there's no point in switching to Confu now as we don't have religion civics and happiness problems are non-existent on this map.

Turn 74 - The newly whipped worker goes to improve tiles for Kolkata to work on. Delhi starts a library. Confu spreads there >.< Mumbai finishes Barracks and starts up granary.

Turn75 - I trade our only source of sheep to Joao for one of his Cow resources. Completely pointless trade health benefit wise. But it should start building up towards the resource trade diplo bonus which I want.

Turn 77- Kolkata two pop whips the granary and I queue library to overflow into next turn. I will run scientists here to pop a GS before Delhi's Oracle pops a Great Prophet. Kolkata isn't exactly rolling in food to support specialists. (None of the potential cities we are looking at are, actually... ) But it only needs to work one cottage for Delhi to grow into, so it can spare the manpower my other cities can't.

Turn 79 - Mathematics finishes. What to research next? Horse Back Riding is not useful as I don't have horse yet and can't use Elephants either as that needs construction. Construction needs Masonry tech which I am sure the AIs have, so will trade for it. Currency, very nice. But my economy is doing good, so not an urgently needed tech. Alpha is another nice one. But spies are weak until I get some EPs going and the AIs have garbage now to trade for. Metal casting is another nice tech, but it is expensive and I am not pressed for forges or Triremes. Monarchy or Aesthetics it is then. But the AIs on this continent all like Hereditary Rule.

Spoiler :

So at least one will research it shortly. So I go Aesthetics. I also want to get the Shwedagon Paya wonder. We will have gold soon, which will boost the wonder production and since our land sucks so bad for food, I am going to use the wonder for Pacifism to pop GPs faster. I turn off research to build gold for aesthetics.

Turn 81 - Mumbai finishes Granary. I start three scouts. They will finish when it gets to size four and I need to explore the land better. Joao converts to Confucianism. Barbs built a very nice city. I make a note to let it grow and come back for it later.

Spoiler :

Turn 83- I swap settler in Delhi for library to let Delhi grow so I can whip the settler next turn. (Should have done this earlier as soon as Delhi's unhappiness turns wore off.)

Turn 84 -Louis builds Temple of Artemis.

Spoiler :

I should find the city and mark it so I can send any future Great Merchant missions there. Delhi's que shuffled as it grew to Size six this turn. The settler was put back on top and rushed.

Turn 86 - Chennai [P] founded.

Spoiler :

Decent city overall. It will work cottages for now and later will have watermills and hills with gold. Thanks to um the Muse for suggesting the spot
I seem to have missed something. The third scout finished and Mumbai is still one turn from growing. I que an archer. I will change the build to a worker next turn once it grows to size four. Kolkata's library is rushed for two pop.

Turn 90 - Mumbai's worker build gets chopped out as way is made for farms. The new worker is sent to start chopping out the Shwedagon Paya for Delhi. Kolkata is running a scientist and I will add another once it gets to size four. I really want the GS before the GP from Oracle and soon, Shwedagon pops.

Turn 91 -Great Lighthouse built somewhere. Pretty sure it's not on this continent as the wonder screen shows the owner as unknown. You disappoint me, HC!

Spoiler :

Turn 92 - Mumbai finishes Archer that I fortify right there. I want better defences on the border. Military is just a word in a dictionary for my 'empire' right now. I want to fix that.

Spoiler :

Mumbai next works on Courthouse. Why? Because I want to start piling up the Espionage points. Courthouses are cheap anyway and building one in every city should be enough to get me research vision on everyone on the landmass. Kolkata got to size four and I assign another Scientist. It only has 1 food surplus now. But I want GS before GP way more than I need Kolkata to be on the top cities list.

Turn 93 - Scout arrives at Louis' borders.

Spoiler :

If I take that Barb city and plant one to the West of it, I should be able to block off Louis. That would secure a ridiculous amount of land for me. I am tempted to do it. It's a bit to the North and longish distance away from my main base, but I am a greedy &*%% and courthouses make nutty settling viable anyway. Besides, if those two cities completely seal off all competition, that may be well worth the hassle. A chop gets Delhi's library down to one turn. I whip away a pop point too. That gets me 51 overflow that will go to Shwedagon Paya that starts next turn.

Turn 94 - Aesthetics is researched. Delhi starts Shwedagon with 104 hammers into it (100% boost from gold, 51 overflow * 2 + 1 base * 2).

Spoiler :

I start researching Alphabet next. AIs usually get it quickly on Monarch. But it is possible to get it way sooner by self teching. I am going to get Alpha and setup shop.

Turn 95 - Louis adopts Hereditary Rule. Glad I started on Alpha. I want that tech.

Spoiler :

Turn 99 - Mumbai grew to Size six and I microed citizens to finish Courthouse same turn. Settler qued. Will be rushed for 3 pop next turn. Shwedagon still being chopped in Delhi.

Turn 101 - Shwedagon finished.

Spoiler :

Joao switched from Confu to Buddhism. That's not good. Also not good, I am going to have to spread Confu around my cities and become a heathen neighbour to HC because he won't spam me with monks! I am going to make use of the tools I have and if that means I have to fight a war, so be it. I did come here looking for a fight, after all . Oh, this popped up.

Spoiler :

Yay! I am not last anymore!
Mumbai's settler finishes and sent to found the horse/fish city. It and Delhi start a Confu temple for happiness.

Turn 103 - Alphabet in. Let's take a look at the tech situation:

Spoiler :

Right. I am definitely sucking it up. Surely the least advanced civ if not for some poor sod out there!
Louis will give us Monarchy for Meditation and Aesthetics.

Spoiler :

Huayana will give us fishing, Masonry and Iron Working for Priesthood and Aesthetics.

Spoiler :

I am leaning towards taking these trades. Joao has nothing better to offer. He is worse because he won't part with masonry.

That covers it for this session.
The land I have uncovered so far:

Spoiler :

This is the tentative dotmap:

Spoiler :

Diplomacy situation:

Spoiler :

Religion:

Spoiler :

Tech situation:

Spoiler :

Currency is next in line. Though I will switch to Horse Back Riding and Construction after the tech trades and go Confu.

Thoughts on the game so far:
I am doing terribly! Only four cities by 300 BC is way slow. However there's a settler on way to nab the horse/fish spot and once Kolkata pops a Great Scientist for an academy in Delhi, it will be full whip mode for rexing the land. I haven't seen a single missionary from HC. He hasn't even built a wonder yet. So much for outsourcing wonder building. I am going to swap into Confucianism.

It will get me heat from Joao and HC. But I am fine with that. (Joao is going to be easier to deal with as he will love Hereditary Rule). Military is a bit sparse, but I am not gun-shy of whipping everything into ground if needed. If war breaks out, it does. I would rather have a religion I can make use of instead of good relations with competition I am going to take out sooner or later anyway.

What has me worried most is the health situation. Mumbai and Delhi already ran into the health cap a few times.

What I need advice on is should I give into the insanity and settle those blocking cities just south of Louis? I am going to secure Copper city next and then, I don't have a clear plan on the settle order. I am fine with doing zany things. it can be fun. Thoughts, critique and suggestions welcome. Thank you for reading

P.S. Saves attached. The first is a turn before Oracle completes. The second is the turn Alphabet is finished.

 

[goldys_lackey]

I played a session before I read this. The missionary is still chilling in the holy city. I am planning on using him to spread Confu around to my cities as Bud won't spread to me and I could use a religion.

You need to road into him. You don't have any trade routes except internal ones. Road in and you'll get more coin from trade and buddhism.

Hmmm.... Didn't think of chopping the forests for settlers and workers. I usually whip heavily, so prefer to have a food heavy start. So, is it better when we have flood plains to just shoot towards Pottery and not build farms on them in the interim?

Between your capital tile and the wet corn you can work 4 green mines and a plains hill mine in your capital. I would have grown onto mines initially, chopping workers and 2 pop whipping settlers, overflowing into units and wonders. Rinse and repeat until you have rexed to your economy's capacity. Then you share the wet corn with a second city and work cottaged flood plains in your capital. There was no need to ever farm them unless you were planning to grab the stone, build the mids and run a specialist economy, not a bureau economy. On normal speed, you have to really mind worker turns, compared to marathon.

 

[pigswill]

Chop and whip. I'm really not sure why you went for SP when its not that difficult to bulb philosophy for pacifism.

 

[UnforcedError]

A very interesting game so far. I'd like to follow it closely and ask the odd question or two if you don't mind. I'm new to this forum myself (not to civ 4 though, I'm an immortal player) so it would be nice to get the hang of things around here.

1. Why tech aesthetics? The AI is really slow to get alpha on monarch (you beat them by a mile even by not really trying). Is there a specififc reason you don't want to trade alpha?

2. I probably would have oracled currency since you were very close to math. However, this strategy really requires early foreign trade routes as goldys_lackey suggested.

3. Why do you want to adopt Confucianism so badly? It seems to me you've got tons of happy resources. Do you want to run an early theocracy with SP? (an interesting wonder, never accually wanted to have it. Got it once or twice by accident while building it for the failgold.) However, early theo is not bad, although if you really want to HA rush it is unnecessary. I personally would wait for Buddhism. And run HR. This will really make them love you. (They will love each other too, unfortunately.)

4. Although you didn't post the unit screen it seems to me you're actually lacking worker turns rather than courthouses right now. Chopping some workers is powerful with math. Or do you want to save those forests for specific wonders?

5. In this case I'd use caste to get the GS or GM I want more quickly. You're spiritual after all.

6. Who are you concentrating your spy points on currently?