Moving up from Emperor

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Viralvoid, Aug 2, 2018.

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  1. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    Hello everyone, since playing in Emperor (still challenging though) became routinely victorious to me, I decided to go up from Emperor to Immortal, which I "think" is a good sign for me. On Emperor, I could say that establishing a well-planned and military-wise empire is a win-win situation for me, By the way, I would like to thanks all my senpais in this forum for providing me lot of information, tips and sometimes, I even mimic photojournals and write ups, thanks! :D

    Although, I will start my 1st Immortal game later, or maybe not? I am not saying that I am confident or ready for Immortal, I just think that Emperor is a 80:20 win-lose ratio.

    I just started this thread because I just wanted to ask a few questions, again.
    -My last game as Iroquois is kind of weird, actually, I am swimming in happiness even before the Industry-closer (is that what you call it?), however, my concern is, even though I have 20+ cities with 15-25 population average, I have 100+ happiness, and my only source of unhappiness is "religious division and war weariness". I'm the tech leader. Another is, not all AIs's were swimming in happiness like mine, England, Polynesia, Rome and almost everyone else has 0% to 50% happiness in the demographics, and a frequent city-revolts.
    -Yes, I am expecting that it could be harder, but I just wanted to ask what to expect in Immortal that is not in Emperor. *Is it almost the same AI tactics with just higher AI free yields?*
    -In Emperor, I have almost 90% success when founding a religion, will it change in Immortal?
    -Emperor and Immortal is not that different?, should I not expect something at all??

    Thanks everyone :D
     
  2. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    I think they start to make better decisions on Immortal, i believe on Emperor they choose from 2 or 3 best options randomly, while on Immortal and Deity they always take best option possible. And i have to say that AI nowdays is quite good at choosing policies and pantheons. However higher handicap is still more important thing.
    It will, but you still can have religion 90% of time. Even on Deity i think you get it 70% of time. You just need to commit to it harder (like taking more faith-heavy Pantheon and build Shrines asap)
    It is significant, however the biggest gap is between Immortal and Deity. Immortal after Emperor seems more challenging, but my advice is just do not give up. At some point of the game (probably around Medieval) you will find yourself being 10 techs behind, and it might seem that you have zero chances. But you actually do have all the chances you need.

    I think the biggest difference between Immortal/Deity and other difficulties is that suddenly player founds out that he is not leading in every aspect of the game and despite trying to became a leader he can't do it. I think many people just can't live with that fact and give up.
     
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  3. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    My approach on Emperor does not work on Immortal, sadly, I think I have to quit my current China game, everyone is declaring war with me. I thought my army is intimidating enough (if in Emperor?), having 10 horseman and about 2 swordsman, and some other units. My unit supply is 16/17, but I am still last at the demographics, no one is at medieval, therefore no longswordsman, knights etc.

    I'm still deciding whether to quit or not, I'll send a ps maybe later, but the view is, I can't defend my lower city (or i'm just pessimistic). I am last on the scoreboard on the ancient era which is pretty obvious, but I managed to get to 3rd. Have the most city with 10 happiness, and Austria, the leading in score is only 1 policy above. 2nd in terms of land size, and actually I'm on the edge of the map with only one neighbor, I just hate Assyria, my closest neighbor and a warmonger. My economy is running smoothly, about a 120+ gold per turn.
     
  4. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Lets go one by one.

    Why do you care about anyone declaring war on you if he can't attack you? It does not matter, what matters is Assyria.
    FYI scoreboard has ZERO useful info. Being last on the scoreboard until Industrial is NORMAL. Being last in demographics NORMAL. Get used to it, it is just not important. It will become better in Renaissance.
    What you describe seems like you are in a very good spot. Being 1 policy behind in Classical is great! I mean seriously, just get used to the fact that being 10 techs and 3 policies behind is okay. Things are going bad when you are 20 techs and 6 policies behind.
    This is a VERY strong army for Classical. This is more than enough for attacking, should be very easy to defend. I can't imaging not being able to defend with 10 horsemen.
    If you can't defend - you are doing something wrong. Some ideas: 1) your army is somewhere where it should not be; 2) you overexpanded and have 10+ cities; 3) your city have bad placement (exposed and on a flatland); 4) you do not pay enough attention to how you move your units at war
    Post several screenshots of your empire to understand
     
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  5. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I loaded my game, and I have said things quite differently :crazyeye::crazyeye: forgive me, huehue.
    Austria has 11 cities, and I only have 9, which is I guess not a problem.
    And I rechecked everything, and I realized that I might not be doing good :undecide: and 2-3 civs were actually in medieval :sad:
    And I am actually 6th in terms of military, but there is not much difference on the last.

    This is what my Empire looks like
    https://imgur.com/a/uY8QIS4

    EDIT: I am now 5th, but I made it to 3rd for only a few turn.
    My happiness down to 5, when my road connections were pillaged.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  6. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    Well, that makes sense, stupid me :crazyeye::crazyeye: I'm just confused or some sort when someone declared war at me, I'm paranoid or something.

    Everything will get better? :undecide: I thought AI will become better at late game, or I just overestimated everything about them..


    I forgot to mention that Xian was captured once, I just recaptured it, and he declared war again after the peace treaty. He conquered it with only 1 horseman and 1 catapult, and totally undefended.
    1. My army is at north, mixed with no.4, I forgot that I have units somewhere, just idle while the frontlines were almost dying!
    2. Now that you mention it, I realized that I only have 3 outpost cities, but I don't think I overexpanded, since I'm using China, and I'm just taking advantage of her UA.
    3. I thought I can defend it with my cho-ku-no later, but I think it could be too late.
    4. Yes, I'm kind of absent minded when it comes to those things :D:D

    Thanks :):)
     
  7. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Xian is super-exposed, you shall not build cities like this. And Shanghai should be moved 1-2 tiles to the left, it is too far away.
    More cities is not always better. Personally i prefer to have 7-8 cities maximum, if i have more - those are usually conqured. Buiildiong more than 8 cities in the early game kills your happiness culture and science.
    And you are building GRANARY there despite having Swordsmen nearby. You had to invest into Walls there 5 turns ago.
    Your Horsemen near Xian are awfully positioned, when you defend - your units should be BEHIND your city, not in front of it.
    Why do you build Amphitheaters everywhere? They are by far not the best building at that time.
     
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  8. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I'm only building 3 amphitheaters after the writer's guild.
    actually, after the patch on distress, I don't build walls even on my frontier cities, I just build em' when I don't have enough supply. Although, thanks, since Xian really is exposed, I'm going to build walls :D:D

    In Emperor, it is rarely for enemy AIs to siege or even conquer a city of mine... Maybe that is why I can't see the importance of walls :crazyeye::crazyeye:
     
  9. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Oh, yeah, this is good.
    Walls help a lot with defense. Before distress i also built them only for defense cause it is just way to expensive to waist hammers and time on them. Or better to sya i usually built Walls in Medeival and Castles in Industrial. I always had lots of unhappiness from crime cause it was always better to reduce unhappiness from boredom and illiteracy that from crime
     
  10. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    Took fealty, because I have lot of pastures, and my pantheon is open sky, and for extra protection, food and faster castle and armory, Idk if artistry is better for China though.
    I really don't know how to deal with runaway civs, except for that I can steal technologies and has good trade route yields.

    Austria is the only threat so far...
    Assyria, even though he frequently declares war with me became a minor problem (I hope so).

    My saddening current state :(
    https://imgur.com/a/4qCLShw

    IDK what makes Austria too powerful at this stage of the game, she has no early game bonuses.
    And I have to admit that standard speed is too fast for me (I play on Epic) XD
     
  11. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    What is saddening?
    28 vs 34 techs, 8 vs 10 policies, 10 cities vs 14 cities in Medieval era is a good spot. Even 10 techs and 5 policies behind is not a disaster at this point of the game.

    Last policy of Fealthy synergies well with China:
    "+15% production and city Border Growth doubled during 'We Love the King Day.' * Trade Routes to Civilizations with more Techs and/or Policies than you generate +2 Science and/or Culture."
     
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  12. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I'm just not used to it... maybe..

    I'm always leading in everything when playing "China" at this stage of the game, I'll just move on those thoughts, and just play it out, ignoring their progress other than mine :crazyeye::crazyeye:
     
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  13. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Are your cities doing well in terms of buildings? What concerns me about that position is that you are #6 in hammers and the population of some of those cities seems low (6 in Shandong?), not the culture or science position.

    Try to capture some cities with the Chu-Ko-Nu and remember that progress, China, and your pantheon are all pretty good long term. I agree Austria is a big threat.
     
  14. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I am not quite sure, I'm building infra fast, or it is because I'm used to Epic that is why I thought it was good/fast.
    And, I am investing my gold on infra, I think my gpt is quite nice.
    Shandong is newly founded, I just want to fill gaps. noob moves

    I'll kick my pop up with my fealty, and mandir

    EDIT: I took thrift, because mastery, inspiration, were all taken.
    I think it is good for her UB
     
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  15. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Emperor

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    Why do you build Walls in Tianjin and especially in Nanjing? Nobody will ever attack them. You are in a good spot. Get used to it and after 5 won games you'll see that it is incredibly boring to play when you lead in Medieval.
     
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  16. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I took fealty, and I wanted to build castles for the food bonus.
    I conquered 1 Assyrian City to reduce its threat. I will try to steal Nineveh from Austria to deny her from more power and land, Nineveh is strategic, because it has a citadel on the north vs Austria. But, conquering Nineveh means more enemies, right?

    omg, how can I forget that, it is very common in most of my games when I'm on prince!
    but it was a few years ago, and I missed that feeling, where on pre-renaissance I'm on the last!

    https://imgur.com/a/UhRnpdG
    I'll just pray for Austria not to DOW me for a while. Her military is a monster.

    EDIT: How can I post pics here without imgur?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  17. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    "Upload a file" in the bottom right corner, near the post reply button
     
  18. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    I think I'm doing better now. My population is up, but not the best.
    I stole Nineveh from Austria, petty thief, however, Austria asked me to make peace with Assyria for a good amount of GPT and luxury. Well, yeah she scammed me, she conquered Assyria's Capital, which I'm planning to steal :crazyeye:

    Thanks to thrift and China's UB, I have good GPT and I invested every buildings possible, and modernized my army quite fast (about 2-3 units per turn).
    I focused on military, food and production, although still not the best in terms of military, but I can protect myself with it.
    Denounced Austria means more friends, I denounced her. :grouphug: let us hate her together.
    Everyone, or most AI is at war with her, which is kind of fun, her city-states allies were conquered, however the threshold for DV will become lower, which is not good either.

    I'm getting nearer to her in technologies, however, in policy, I am 2 behind. (I have rationalism opener).

    Current State
    https://imgur.com/a/kBqxCLz

    I'm taunting Austria to declare war with me, so I can conquer Assur, which is rather unprotected.
    I cut off routes toward Assur using my GG, which is land-locked, well I think this action is pretty dumb because she can embark units.
    Sadly, If Austria DOW me, my 120+ science and culture from trade routes will lost.

    I'll stick with imgur, it looks better huehue, thanks anyway
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018

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