MP game on a huge map. Thinking of playing wide India. Good idea?

[anandus]

So, I'm going to play a multiplayer game soon. It will be an nqmod-game.
I was thinking of playing a (very) wide India game. India has a happiness advantage when cities are 4 or higher (correct me if I'm wrong!), so I thought it is a good idea to go wide.

Do you think this is a good plan?

Also, should I go tradition (for the growth bonus) or is liberty a better plan?
It is nqmod, but the basics are the same (bonus for first few cities, plus monarchy en landed elite vs bonus per city/city connection)

What do you think?
Any suggestions for my game?

 

[Lay_Lay]

If the goal is to maximize odds of winning a MP game, play the map.
If the map says to go wide, then do so.
If not, don't.

 

[claudiupb]

India is good for wide play, eventually. The problem with them is that in the beginning you can't expand due to major happiness issues. The UA begins to produce a happiness advantage by the time your cities become size 6, but this means that your Expanding phase is greatly crippled. I don't really know what very wide means in civ 5, but at a minimum of 6 self-founded cities you get 36 global unhappiness just from the cities alone (plus what you will get from population). You need 9 unique luxuries just for the city unhappiness. Let's say you get an alliance with a mercantile CS that has another luxury unique to you, you still need 6-7 unique luxuries, which is doable but very risky.
Going wide is a very risky strategy with any civ, but I feel that with India there are even more risks involved.

 

[Tabarnak]

You turn even at 6 . You should watch this game recently played by BabaYetu_. India wide game. He did ally a merc CS pretty soon though.

http://www.twitch.tv/babayetu_/v/27872497

 

[anandus]

Thanks for the tips, claudiupb and Tabernak. Will watch that game.

But according to my calculations India turns even on huge at 4 pop (5,6 happy vs 5,8 happy*), is my calculation wrong?

2*1.8 + 0.5*4 = 5.6 (India)
1.8 + 4 = 5.8 (other)

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Wide India is really hard to play because your start is delayed so much, you have to invest in early Happiness, you will often have to delay settling cities just in order to not go unhappy. That being said as soon as you get all your cities up and your basic infrastructure down there's no stopping you.

If you're an experienced player and confident with your decision I'd say go for it. In that case I would most likely go Tradition because the early Aqueducts are very much appreciated in Indias case. Often times you will not be able to let your Expos grow until you either got Colloseums/Circuses up or until you got a Mercantile CS allied. Therefore your cities will be pretty small, even at Turn 60/70 when you get your Tradition finisher, making Aquaducts even more efficient.

One more thing: It's impossible to say from the get-go that you will go wide. It doesn't make sense. For India to be able to go wide you need a ton of luxuries. More than any other Civilization will need. Wide India is extremely map-dependant. However, in Multiplayer India has other advantages. You can do a rush with your unique unit, for example.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Also take note that while India produces less local unhappiness, the extra unhappiness it produces is global. Thus, you don't always break even at 6 pop if you have a lot of happiness buildings

For example, a 6 pop city without buildings breaks even (6 + 3 = 3 + 6). However, if that city builds a circus and Colosseum, for a normal civ it will give 3 + (6 - 4) = 5 unhappy, but for India it will still give 6 unhappiness. For a city with pagoda, circus, and Colosseum (not unthinkable even quite early, especially in a happy starved wide game), the city needs to have 12 pop to profit fully from the happiness buildings, and will only break even at pop 9 (3 + (9-6) = 6 + 0).

So, India needs more global happiness to be able to expand, since it cannot use buildings as effectively to counter unhappiness. If in a normal wide play you need a unique luxury per city, India needs almost 2 luxes per city, unless you can get e.g. a merc ally.

(See also http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=539355)

 

[claudiupb]

Thanks for the tips, claudiupb and Tabernak. Will watch that game.

But according to my calculations India turns even on huge at 4 pop (5,6 happy vs 5,8 happy*), is my calculation wrong?

2*1.8 + 0.5*4 = 5.6 (India)
1.8 + 4 = 5.8 (other)

Sorry my calculations were for standard size. On a Huge map, India seems to have a bigger advantage (compared with the standard size). You still need one unique lux per city to avoid being unhappy, but that is more manageable.

 

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Moved to Multiplayer

 

[anandus]

Thanks for the tips, people!

Also take note that while India produces less local unhappiness, the extra unhappiness it produces is global.

Oh, wow, that's a very good point! Didn't think of that.