MSAV Discussion Thread to Russian War

[Provolution]

Japanatica is now in war with Russia, and we need a discussion on how this war should be conducted, especially so close to the invention of fission and a potential diplomatic win.

We got certain facts we need to take into account:

We have a Mutual Protection Pact with America, Aztecs and France

We have only a WOTP sanctioned naval war allowed as rules of engagement.

A very vocal peace movement has wanted a diplomatic win, but has been uncertain on who to ally in the global owerbalance to get this win

we have a deep internal rift on how to conduct foreign policy in Japanatica, but now France, America and Aztecs are in the same fold in the unifying experience of joint war against a common enemy.

We may still see Russian adding local proxy nations to add new fronts (Iroq, Rome and Babylon).

Capturing Russian India and giving it to an ally to gain favor in advance of the UN election can be one way to do it.

Many of us want this to end Term VI

Internal political strife makes little sense now, we got one common goal, end the game with a win as soon as possible, many says diplomatic

Finally, I will post a 48 hour poll on Monday, so we can get all discussions on the table and all concerivable options polled.

Please continue discussion here.
One group has recognized and realized the same as MSAV has done in Term IV, that China would be the main rival for the UN Diplowin. Japanatica still has many China-friends, but that does not necessarily mean Chinese war, but political isolation of China would give us the Diplowin. Crimso has seen this clearly, and I would like to pay respect for a citizen that has seen the light.

I also thank MSAV Deputy Epimetheus for his bold plan for attack on Russia, and would add that plan to one of the options polled for next turnchat.


Present options for the next ten turns are:

Status Quo, Naval Defense Line and Home GAJ Constabulary, "Murky Waters"
Sir Donalds Defense of America, "Team America-Japanatica World Police"
Epimetheus Naval Landing of Core Russia, "Catherine up in Smoke"
Provolutions Naval Landing of Indian Russia "Operation Classical Furiey"
Grand Admiral Alis "Rays of Freedom" (American base policy)
Double Play, Naval Landing of All Russia
Total War, Defense of America and both naval landings

Optional

Liberate Japanaticans in Huntington "Huntingtons Clash of Civilizations"
Naval pillage raid of Russian resources

 

[blackheart]

2 words: Nuke fest

 

[Ginger_Ale]

No offensive action and get peace asap.

That's always been my stance. Wars in Democracy and on other continents are no good.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Even if we take no offensive action, We should STILL do our level best to Protect our Allies from the Russian War Machine. Especially America, who lies on Russia's border.

Questions about the morality of this war aside, would the Doves have us prove faithless to the World?

At a Bare Minimum we must defend America! If not extend their borders to include Odesa, Minsk, and St. Petersburg. (That's right. I want the St. Pete Ivory to go to America if we take Russian Land. I mean, we can't hold it, but America is contiguious.)

Perhaps this might be appeasable to the doves; to conquer land then gift it to the ally that currently stands to lose the most. Especially if it hold a Luxury. (And an extra Rubber.)

 

[blackheart]

Why don't we just raze any Russian cities that we conquer and let whoever wants to settle there? It's a win-win. We get workers, they get cities.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Razings count agaisnt our Diplomatic Position. +1 point to All Nations. (+12 to the Razed Nation, but that will matter little.)

Conquer, and gift most. (Let us keep the Indian East Coast.) That's what I say.

 

[Provolution]

Bad move, we should redraw the map and control how future borders should look like. Random settlement now is only damaging.

 

[blackheart]

Razings count agaisnt our Diplomatic Position. +1 point to All Nations. (+12 to the Razed Nation, but that will matter little.)

Conquer, and gift most. (Let us keep the Indian East Coast.) That's what I say.

Really?... It has never affected my stances much with other nations, except the one I'm razing the cities of, of course.

There is no guarantee America will remain our allies. We gifted a city to the Russians, and look what happened. We should keep the Americans, Aztec, and Chinese occupied and let them fight amongst themselves for land.

 

[Provolution]

The Russan Foreign Policy was flawed, firs we took their coal, then we withheld it for some measle gold, since we thought the offer was too low. All treaties with Russia was made last minute, with 24 units around. We need to think more long term here.
We cannot allow to lose initiative from now on, we must steer the political future with a firm hand and think long term for a diplowin.

 

[Provolution]

Amazing how certain people surface when we discuss in-game developments detached from harassing ministers... As soon as we discuss something in-game, some people disappear, but they pop up to create trouble from time to time.

 

[blackheart]

Amazing how certain people surface when we discuss in-game developments detached from harassing ministers... As soon as we discuss something in-game, some people disappear, but they pop up to create trouble from time to time.

Do you ever stop complaining? Ideas and plans have been proposed, let us choose which to follow.

 

[Provolution]

Of course, I am just curious on contribution on a Civ3 discussion....

 

[Sir Donald III]

Here is what I would consider to be a possible Order of Battle for the Conquest of Russia. MSAV can modify this to tailor to the goals chosen by the Populace.

The Russian War will have 2 Fronts: Russian and Indian.

Epimethius has already put out an idea for the opening phases of the Russian Campaign. I would like to build on this.

In the opening phases, our small expedition will be slated to arrive at St. Petersburg. The 2 Ironclads there will conduct Bombardment of local resources and the city, while the troops aboard the Galleon (2 Cav, 2 Inf) will take and hold the city itself.

In the meantime, Galleons will be sailing from Tonawanda and the Fleet (Empty) to be upgraded at the Ela Springs Harbor once we get Combustion:
1st Transport: 1 Cav Army (4 slots), 2 Infants, 2 Artillery
2nd Transport: 1 Inf (from Tonawanda), 1 Infant Army (4 slots), 2 Cavs, 1 Artillery

These reinforcements will relieve the St. Pete Garrison and then move on to Sevastapool, as per the Deputy's plan. In the meantime, the Ironclads will conduct Sea Superiority and/or the occasional Tile Raid on Moscow.

Once we take Sevastapool and Secure it, We will evaluate the progress of the Western front. If our allies have successfully fought off the initial raids and held the line, then we can leave them with Odessa and go on to Minsk. (The rubber resource there might come into play in the middle of the War, should Russia continue research or trades.) If not, then we'll go through Odessa or Minsk to cut the foe off from behind.

During this time, our Troop Galleon will have returned to Ela Springs for Resupply and Upgrade. This ship and further ones would carry available reinforcmetns as deemed necessary by MSAV.

Once the lines are secure enough for our Allies to clean up the frontier, (Odessa-Minsk-Tiblisi,) we march on Moscow, then Smolensk, and finally Kiev. Ironclads will help to bombard critical Coastline Roads.

Total Preemptive and First Wave Forces:
5 Infantry
4 Cavelry
1 Infant Army
1 Cav Army
3 Artillery


For the Indian Theater, the opening phase would be the NE Spice Mines. We will land NE of Sverdlosk.

3 Transports (Curently Galleons at Pete), 3 Ironclads (Primary Escort)
First Transport: 4 Caverly, 4 Artillery
Second Transport: Infantry Army (4), 2 Caverly, 2 Infantry
Third Transport: At least 6 Infantry for Garrison, other 2 slots per MSAV Discression.
A fourth Galleon at Windurst can be upgraded and bring extra forces if necessary.

Total First Wave Forces:
6 Cavelry
4 Artillery
1 Infantry Army
8 Infantry
2 Cavs, Infantry, or Artillery: MSAV's Discression

The opening phase would see the capture of Sverdlosk and Punjab. (Operation "Kessel Run") After this, our next targets wopuld be Huntington Beach and Lahore. Following this would be Bangalore, Chittagong, Jaipur, then Delhi and Karachi.


Now, this is not to say that we'll keep every city. In fact, the only Japantanican Territorial Expansion will take place in India. (Unless MSAV wants Smolensk as a Naval Base...)

 

[Provolution]

I would like to urge the use of elite formations here. I still intend to use 3 elite Samurai Imperial Commando and 5 Elite Cavalry in the Indian Theatre, in order to head for great leaders. 3 Elite Imperial Commandos are perfectly capable of mopping up some of the weaker Russian units, we counted around Huntington.

We indeed consider a naval base as useful for enforcing support by our allies.
Tonawonda is such a watchpost. Interior cities we are done with.

 

[Sir Donald III]

So the First Wave OoB in the Indian Theater would be this then?
5 Cavelry
4 Artillery
1 Infantry Army
8 Infantry
3 Samurai Commando

 

[Provolution]

Sounds good Mr President

 

[blackheart]

If we really want to be political about this, we could sit back and wait offshore of Russia for a few turns while the Russians, Aztec, and Americans fight it out. Then we go in, mop up the pieces, recapture any cities the Russians may have taken and gift them back to their previous owners.

 

[Provolution]

No need to delay or randomize foreign policy anymore. Besides, we should run the pace of the war, not them, plus, we could end it much much quicker.

 

[blackheart]

No need to delay or randomize foreign policy anymore. Besides, we should run the pace of the war, not them, plus, we could end it much much quicker.

There is no randomization. We could end the war quicker, but with more casualties. It's a matter of balance between time and losses.

 

[Sir Donald III]

we should redraw the map and control how future borders should look like. Random settlement now is only damaging.

Funny that you say that Provo... here's my post-war plan to chop up the Russian Homeland. Note that these changes are conditional upon us getting the respective cities. If another nation conquers a city, there's nothing we can do.



As I have said before, we would reward the Americans risking so much with so much of Russia. Up to and including the Ivory coast of St. Pete and its seniors. I would also give them Tiblisi because I don't want China holding that pass yet.

I'm debating on whether to give the Moscow-Sevastapool strip to either the French (let them deal with high corruption) or America (more continuity).

Smolensk, surrounded as it is with hills and mountains, would make a good South Seas base. It might even retain its harbor.

And Kiev... it'll fall to China anyway once Russia loses it. So we gift it either to China directly or to France (or another nation) and let them deal with the loss.

Now... as for India...



At a minimum, I would like Sverdlosk and Punjab. At a maximum, the Orange Line. We might as well take Huntington back as well. If people want to ceed Lahore-Delhi-Karachi to the French as a "Buffer Strip", I'm Ok with that. I'd definitely like to gift Jaipur to the Aztecs as a Colony.

Again, this is all if we get the cities. Which is why Sverdlosk is the first target in my "Indian" theater, to be modified into "Furiey". Spices are important. The Great Library not so important.

So you might as well add an option of "Double Play! Up in Smoke AND Classical Furiey"