1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Multiplayer Gold version vs. Original

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by WildPony, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    Greetings. Recently i have been hearing that differing versions of the game play differently. Specifically that with certain versions the ai is more hostile. Any truth to this? I have Multiplayer gold, 1.3 patched. When i play a GOTM (in single player mode), does my version handicap me?

    Are there any other differences? For example, in my version in single player mode it takes a settler 2 turns to build a grassland road. Same as in the original version, yes?
     
  2. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    As far as I know the ai being more hostile is the only diference.... but I have the classic version...so probably somebody with the gold version knows this better.
     
  3. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    No other opinions means that all agree there are no other differences? :D

    I feel that throughout the game with my version, the average civ is "hostile" pretty much no matter what i do. If i gift them 4 techs, they might go to "cordial" or even "enthusiastic" or even "worshipful" for a turn, but the next turn they're hostile again and ready to go to war with me at the drop of a hat :goodjob:. Last time i built Marcos, (gotm 94, emperor, one city) the turn i got it, i couldn't get a single tech, even with multiple giftings... and forget about maps :wavey:. After placating one guy and making peace, i tried to trade techs and he said "all of our great minds are busy working on our glorious project the Pyramids. Perhaps we should speak again later". This guy was gifted to worshipful and i kept getting the same response. And maps? A worsipful civ tells me "we have no use for your feeble maps". Does this happen with original version too :D?

    Strangely in other gotms, the other civs starting with similarly bad attitudes, i have nailed 10 techs and 4 maps the turn i got Marcos. Maybe, but i can't remember, it was prince or some other very easy level.

    What kind of an attitude difference are we talking about between versions? What is the average attitude of the other civs the turn you get marcos and throughout the game with orig version?

    And i'm wondering if another difference exists between the versions. In multiplayer gold version, you can have a worshipful civ refuse to trade techs or maps. Has this ever happened to anybody in original?
     
  4. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Ontario
    Well, both civs have to have map making in order to trade maps. If one civ doesn't, the only response is "we have no need for your useless maps."

    Sometimes worshipful civs will refuse to trade in classic, especially if they are building a wonder (like your comment).

    I only play scenarios on Gold edition, so I don't know if there are other game-play differences for a standard game. It takes two turns to build a road in classic as well.

    I think there is a patch out there that downgrades Gold edition to classic; I seem to remember something about it in one of the old succession game threads. I don't know if that will fix the hostile AI problem, however.

    The attitude problem might put you at a bit of a disadvantage, but given the few people around here, there is not much that can be done.
     
  5. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
     
  6. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Ontario
    Attitudes in classic are what I would consider "reasonable" for the nature of the game; you can actually engage in some form of reasonable and long-term diplomacy. The computers tend to grow more hostile as the game progresses, but they are reasonable throughout the early to mid game. Of course, being supreme will make you more unpopular (if you are flipping between Mighty and Supreme, the difference in AI attitudes is very noticeable). I think that certain techs (like space flight) make a difference in attitude, and I'm also convinced that the AI is more hostile post 1750.

    As I recal, a scenario I played that was a modified version of a "regular" game had a significantly more hostile group of computers than I was expecting, being used to classic. Typically in classic you find that you will be on good terms with some computers, one or two can be won over (long term) by a couple of trades or tech gifts and one or two will typically be more hostile regardless of your actions.

    If you have classic, I would recommend that you play your single-player games on it. Also, if you have classic installed, you don't need to have the disk to play.
     
  7. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    There are players who like gold because the more hostile ai... it's sometimes difficult to start a war with classic when having rep. or dem. government. So that is the real question for you to decide if you prefer classis or mpg. And some games can be played better with classic and vice versa.
     
  8. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    I've been playing MGE for many years, mainly due to scenario requirements. Also I played normal civ before I discovered MGE here, on Civfanatics around 2004. Main differences would be just like you said, extremely hostile AI. Also there was an annoying bug with being unable to close city window, and I had to kill the process in task manager. It's fixed in MGE. All other rules and game mechanics seem to be the same in both versions, except possible map size being larger in MGE, allowing for really big world maps (mega or giga world is the name IIRC). The problem with cheat menu is also interesting, I've had situations where for some reason my cheat menu was active from the beginning of the game. I could cheat as much as I wanted, then CTRL-K again and the menu deactivated. When I tried to activate it again, it said I would lose the score if I activated it. Upon reload, sometimes the cheating menu was active again, sometimes it remained inactive for the rest of the game (or until I activated it and lost the score that way)
    Now, if I kept the menu active and only turned it off a turn before the end of the game, by any means, without reloading, my score would be just fine, no penalty for potentially using the cheat menu.

    Although if done properly it could be an interesting way to cheat, and undetectable as well, I believe it can be annoying at times, especially since my cheating days are long gone, and achieving a 100% fair and legal victory is more satisfying than nukes in 4000 bc... plus it has a way of tempting you, when you see those damned Zulus are gonna build Leo in the next turn and you need at least 3.

    Another thing of which I am unsure is internal AI intelligence. I think it's been improved in MGE and during wars between AI civs now, there's a chance of a civ being destroyed. I played once on MGE and Zulus, having settled in Africa, took over entire Mongol civ that spanned over 80% of Asia. It was on giga world I mentioned before and the year was around 2400 ad. Never happened to me in classic version.

    EDIT:

    Another difference I just remembered: There is no gold limit in MGE. I've gone over 2 million gold in some games and no problems ensued, other than the price of enemy cities as well as some gold-based diplomatic options have grown according to their wealth. Worst thing was, the enemy AI still only offered 500 gp if I agreed to attack someone else. Imagine 2 bil gold increased by the astounding amount of 500. I've had MGE games where cities cost over 600k and asking to attack an enemy civ cost around half that, peace treaty/cease fire agreements float at around 100k. I still have a screenshot:

    http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=civ2ek7.jpg

    It was an MGE scenario with alien visitors, 1vs1 - me vs comp AI. I've no idea how much gold did they have, it must have been at least a couple times more than me. Although you all seem to finish your games early, so extensive enemy wealth shouldn't be a problem for you, it's still worth noting if you plan to play for fun into later games.

    In case someone is interested in other modifiable game mechanics, it seems that at least 2.78 version of classic civ and MGE both use the same rules.txt file and I just found out they are mutually exchangeable. I have those 2 versions as well 2.42 on my HDD so if anyone is interested I can provide any comparison between them.
     
  9. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    217
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    oh man. :blush: Is this something that occurs in classic version too... or does classic provide a safe haven from the unfortunate capability to cheat?
     
  10. Blasph23

    Blasph23 Terraformation Junkie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Poland
    I'm not entirely sure but I think it's an MGE exclusive issue.
     
  11. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Ontario
    I don't recall ever encountering the problem in classic, though I have run into it in MGE.
     
  12. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,162
    Location:
    Ontario
    I doubt this is a result of AI improvement. At 1 turn per year the AI has had 400 turns more than a standard game. Given railroads and howitzers, I don't see why the Zulus couldn't beat the Mongols eventually.
     

Share This Page