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Multiplayer Let's Plays - BuilderFTW

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Multiplayer' started by BuilderFTW, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. BuilderFTW

    BuilderFTW Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    133
    Hey Civfanatics,
    I would like to tell all you guys about my multiplayer let's play videos on you tube. Please go check them out.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CivBuilderFTW?feature=mhee

    Please tell me what you like and what I could do better
    - Games are at 2x speed
    - My most recent video has commentary from two people(me + AwesoMe)
    - Most of the games are played through civplayers group, please join!!

    Thanks,
    BuilderFTW
     
  2. KM

    KM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    284
    Here s thought to the Aztec rome combo. 6 Legions at turn 33. Against better players they would field 8-9 swords at the time.

    Aztec capital made a barrack, then settlers (not very many jaguars after the barrack, not right away anyway)

    One thing you could have done, I havnt play tested this but I think it would be neat, What you want is loads of gold for upgrade right?

    You also would prefere all legions to be former Aztec jaguars and not worriors. So You wouldn t really like Rome to make any worriors at all and you would like Aztec to have barracks and produce as many jaguars as possible. Since Rome is making the war yo would also like them to have honor. (This is after all a rush strategy)

    Still u built a barrack in rome, why?

    What about this. Rome taking liberty free settler, free worker, build monument, granery, hard build worker, etc etc. And then spamming settlers AND GIVE them to aztec. Aztec Going honor, planting first city (gifted settler from rome) at the front close to Roman capital. Now while rome constantly provide aztec with settlers, Aztec build only barracks then spam out jaguars. Jaguars are traded to rome, upgraded then back to aztec who attacks.

    Another less complicated way to do it (that would mean aztec capital wont be able to make jaguars but a lot less trading of units would be aztec going liberty, spamming settlers in capital making barracks in satelites and spamming jaguars from them trading to rome who oes honor, upgrades and attack. All in all I think you both had to few cities. Less cities means less gold, less gold is less upgrades less units and If u had good oponents 6 legions would just ot be enough. With a great general and 10% bonus it would. Also I do think you would be able to field a bit more that way. Also Might be good to skip barrack this early to have more units. Twise the legions but not upgraded mabye better....
     
  3. rkelle7

    rkelle7 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Messages:
    90
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCXy...xt=C359fa27UDOEgsToPDskL3viV5izeYC3CQlT8rP0Ak

    Above is link to game KM is speaking of.

    Agreed if some players wanted to they could build more warriors but with most of my "rushes" I still build up some economy so that if the rush fails there is still a strong backbone of Rome. As I said had the rush failed I would have immediately started settler spamming. They did have appropriate amount of forces they were just used incorrectly. You can't defend all your fronts that early with a legion/jag rush. You can only hope to contain it. Only using my pivot move did I win this game short term. I built a barracks in Rome due to the fact I wanted upgraded legions. I'm not even sure that I did build a barracks but if I did it was because I wanted strong legions against upgraded companion calvery when I built the legions myself. There is some school of thought that u don't build a barracks so you get heal promotion faster but I wanted to beat up on some companion calvery. Also if you notice gold is an issue you may notice at turn 34 we could probably have had one more jag legion based on gold. Gold at minute 10:27 shows one jag legion upgrade & 16:23 you will notice we have just enough for two more jag legions for defense and i'm in the negative in gold per turn. The legions wouldn't have been as powerful if builder didn't put rough terrain promotion on it. If you saw at minute 19 or so its tough to see a roman legion upgraded stopped about 3 units fortified in the forest. Anyway it was a gg and I understand what you are saying km but honor probably not a good option long term. Plus people can see you go honor and plan appropriately. If anything sneak a great general in at the end of liberty which is about the same time you get steel and attack. Excellent for Japan/China. Also I didn't mention I produced no warriors except the one that I started with and it was a key to victory in the way I used it. Also I believe its a 20% bonus with great general for attacking/defending and the honor policy if you choose it is 15% bonus on producing units.

    -AwesoMe
     
  4. KM

    KM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
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    If you want backup if rush fails, or if they are producing mass army after the initial upgrades (when out of gold) Would probably like to have rome producing legions not aztec making swords. So if looking at the possibility of a long term game and not all in rush you would actually have it a bit the other way around to what I described abowe. You want Rome with many cities and aztec with few. aztec beeing the supporting civ Large cities, good tech good economy and rome with many cities, high production making army.

    That would suggest Rome going Liberty and settler spam at start, aztec (free liberty settler + 1-2 more) making only 3-4 cities and spamming jaguars to trade both from capital until the amount you can afford to upgrade then focus on growth. . Rome making 6-7 cities and have each one making legions as long as there is enough iron.
     
  5. KM

    KM Chieftain

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    oh yeah 15% bonus.. Damn me = noob ;)
     
  6. KM

    KM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
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    One thing more. The previous game you are talking about not going to faar away with the worrior from the capital. Personally I allways feel it is good to (if possible) walk the worrior all the way to the enemy capitals. There are two reasons for this. First If I dont scout it now it might be to late later on when all got swords out blocking the way. If I have the map scouted I can see where the enemy cities goes up and the size of the enemy capital etc. the second is that if you walk up to the enemy capital and have your worrior fortified on a forrst tile close to it you might try a settler steal when the liberty settler comes or force the enemy to build another worrior in his capital, or walk back with his own worrior. You can also ocne his settler is out block his way to the location you think that he preferes for his seconary city, If it s a hill with river around and lux you can fortify on top of it thus deleying his second city or prventing hm from settling where he want to. Also by blocking his movements on the way there making it take longer for him to plant.
     
  7. rkelle7

    rkelle7 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    KM I think we are talking tomatoes tomatos. Meaning similar things. I wanted to be able to produce a legion every 4-6 turns in my capital once the rush started. That would not have been done with 5-6 cities. I also wanted to rush early. Not as early as Builder wanted me to but early. Before they got done with companion calvery for that first city. Secondly they were putting pressure on my capital. If I had not had my warrior there they would have taken my settler. Third, I agree with you about trying to deny them 2nd city but when weighing the options between rushing and protecting I usually choose protecting with my beginning warrior to play it safe. Also I bulid scouts usually later on to scout through their territory. There is no other way I would have used that warrior except in the way it was used given all options. I agree I needed more cities after the initial rush. But that is after I am sure the rush isn't going to work. And Aztec could go tradition maybe and I gift them settlers but once again that stunts the growth of my capital. I didn't want that.
     
  8. KM

    KM Chieftain

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    Oct 11, 2010
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    Just wan to put this one up on top. I think this is very good, especially for people who wat to learn multiplayer.

    You can see how good players think when they play and why they do as they do.
     
  9. N0QUITTERSULTAN

    N0QUITTERSULTAN Chieftain

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    Location:
    OSLO
    tell oss builder when you put upp new videos..its funny to wacht them..GG GL
     
  10. BuilderFTW

    BuilderFTW Chieftain

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    Ok, I am glad I provide some nice comedy
     
  11. BuilderFTW

    BuilderFTW Chieftain

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  12. N0QUITTERSULTAN

    N0QUITTERSULTAN Chieftain

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    hehe..i didnt mean it like that..iam just a civFANATIC..like the videos..keep opp the good work;):):goodjob::king::scan:
     
  13. EEE_BOY

    EEE_BOY Chieftain

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    Hi, Builder, I watched all your videos, they are fantastic and educational. :goodjob:
    I know this is hard to balance the tech and military, but I found a pattern in your videos. When you built too many military units your cash drains to the red and you either win quickly or defeated by counter push of superior force. Or build too little military units like in the Eqypt-Siam one, and you have a lot of GPT to spear. I wonder if GPT could be some kind of indicator as to whether expand, build or span military units?

    PS: you taught me to conserve cash for upgrade and protect settlers, which are very useful tips! Thank you.
     
  14. KiffeLesBiffles

    KiffeLesBiffles Do you like dogs?

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    Location:
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    Yes comparison between your GPT and science and opponent GPT and science is important :

    - If opponent GPT<<0, his only chance is to kill you with the current techs (probably medieval units). So stop teching and do units !

    - If (opponent GPT >0) and (his science > your science) => attack now, unless you have a good reason to believe you can win in science.

    - Another of my rule : if (your prod >> his prod) => attack now because war someow freeze the production because you only build units and therefore, you can't increase your production very much.

    In the game I played with Builder, we underestimated the timing of their crossbows push and the exposition of builder's cap to their attack.
     
  15. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Pô Chi Min

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    Your land sucked in that game sometimes you don't just get enough luck.
     
  16. BuilderFTW

    BuilderFTW Chieftain

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  17. yuris125

    yuris125 Chieftain

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    Location:
    Chiswick, London, UK
    Hi,

    First of all, thank you for your videos, they're interesting and fun to watch!

    In the videos I watched, the common theme is that you have a rush planned, research to the unit you want to use, mass-produce it, and crush your opponents. In the latest Germany game, your Landsknecht rush was very impressive. However, I would very much like to know how to defend against such a rush

    I play Civ4 much more than Civ5, and in Civ4 if I know what the opponent will use to attack me, I also know what to use to counter it. For example, if my opponent plays Mongols, I know I need to build Spearmen to prepare for an inevitable Keshik rush, and if I don't have enough to defend when the attack comes, I know the loss is my own fault

    In Civ5, when one plays against Germany, they should know a Landsknecht rush is imminent. However, I'm under impression that in your Germany game, your opponents didn't prepare for it well. Is it the case, or is this rush unbeatable if executed properly?

    Also, did you have to defend against a well-executed rush, and is there a video of such a defence?

    Many thanks!
     
  18. BuilderFTW

    BuilderFTW Chieftain

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    Good question.

    In the game I played, the two people I wiped out had pretty bad starts (product of the oval map, skirmish makes more fair starts) and they had been fighting and killing off each other's units.

    As for the Landsknecht rush, it is VERY hard to stop without having a strong advantage (waay more hammers, defensible spots, tech lead). If I were playing against Germany, I would try to get to crossbowmen as quickly as possible. I would do my best to get the great library to have fast tech towards crossbows. With several crossbowmen protecting a defensible city, you might be able to stop the Landsknechts. However if you are playing an opponent around your skill level it is unlikely you will be able to stop it.

    As for countering rushes, it is good to check demographics every turn and check army numbers so that you can keep your army number close to what theirs is. Based on what turn it is it is relatively easy to predict what unit is coming your war. turn 30 is swords, slightly later is horseman and catapults, and once people finish liberty they can get a medieval rush going. It is good to stay aware of what your opponent's special units are and what they (as players) tend to rush for.

    Just for general counters mele beats spear beats horse beats ranged beats swords. Here are my general notes on units: Swords are powerful, archers can be strong but only en masse, horses are strong if you move faster than your opponent, siege is good for taking cities, and crossbowmen are overpowered (imo).

    In teamers and duels, fighting can be thought of as a tug of war, rather than a series of rushes. If you are pressing forwards you are winning and if you are falling back you are loosing (short term). If you think you can win more long term whether through production or technology you build enough forces to keep them from pushing forwards(while focusing on long term bonuses) and if you are trying to kill them you build enough military to overwhelm.

    Videos where I am defensive? In the tug of war analogy most of the spots where I am defensive are where I am loosing, but in some I am going more long term

    Long Term Winning after initial push by opponent:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQJA...DvjVQa1PpcFP_hoAloObjKXsDU7vHI_zr5X261ewxXd8=
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJaj...DvjVQa1PpcFP_hoAloObjKSKatrTLoRiFdLHaPjYqwXs=
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1vd...DvjVQa1PpcFP_hoAloObjKVQwjm0Y_t_ukD1xpV9di1s=

    Loosing:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUKn...DvjVQa1PpcFP_hoAloObjKSOsPlPjldx2facWL-Eys_4=
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_HG...DvjVQa1PpcFP_hoAloObjKWzyHamPd_6iitLfEZFeTl0=


    That answer what you wanted? If I didn't please ask again.
    BuilderFTW
     
  19. yuris125

    yuris125 Chieftain

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    Brilliant, thank you very much for this! Sad to know there is almost no counter for the German push though - hope Firaxis will improve MP balance at some point
     
  20. Silverfuturist

    Silverfuturist Chieftain

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    What makes the German pike push even more brutal - they make several good UUs ineffective, like companion cavalry and Siam's elephants. Sure an elephant might = a pike in combat, but look at the cost for each.
     

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