Mump2 - AWDG Standard Pangaea

[Mumpulus]

Suggestions were made at the end of our first try:

Pick an agricultural civ: Aztecs have the lousy UU, Celts were played only recently in GR15, Sumeria gets its GA too early, Netherlands too late, Maya are in GR17 right now, Inca have a pretty useless trait and UU, so let's go for the Iroquois

Any start is not feasible: To decrease the randomness just a bit, I decided to roll 5 starts and pick the one that seemed best to me. The second and third had no river, so they were out. The fourth was in the middle, so out too. The first and the fifth both looked about the same, so I took the first one. You can't cheat fate

Our second try:
Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: Demigod
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Pangaea (70% Water)
Climate, Temperature, Age: all Random

Civilization: Iroquois
Rivals: all Random
Barbarians: Random
AI Aggression: Normal

Options all set to default values

Variant: Always War (No initial trading) - First seemingly reasonable start we get

We must declare war immediately (no trading first) upon contact, but can see if we are ahead or behind, look at graphs, etc.

Our start:



I spot 1 oasis (= BG) inside our BFC, and 2 more just outside. Move worker to have a closer look:



I'd move the settler NE, so we're distance 3 from the river hill without crossing the river, and get a second oasis in range.

Roster
Mumpulus
Own
nerovats
Mizar
ThERat
cubsfan6506

Note: the start pictured above didn't work after all; the game we're playing right now starts here.

 

[Own]

Strategic talk:

Research should probably be WC - BW - TW - HB - IW.

Settling NE sounds good.

What about our first builds? Rax? Warriors? Worker?

 

[Bucephalus]

lurker's comment:

I managed to play your chosen start in my lunch break.

I only needed to play 23 turns to meet with all of your criteria, and more; it is definitely a playable start as the Iroquois.

Good luck.

 

[ThERat]

research path should go for WC first then we can decide...

be careful working the flood plains as it can give disease and that's what we don't need. preferably work the oasis...

 

[Mumpulus]

Indians, Japanese, French, English, Celts, Zulu and Arabs are also in this game.

0) 4000BC
Worker was already moved E, move settler NE.

1) 3950BC
Found Salamanca. Spot another river north, parallel to ours, with some hills beyond. So far so good. A lot of plains again though. There's a hut just outside our borders.

We all hate disease, so working the floodplains should indeed be reduced to a minimum. But our capital will get growth in 4 by working two irrigated floodplains, that would surely be nice. I'd like to work them at least at the beginning to grow quickly. When we get up in size a bit, switch to oases, which will be improved by then hopefully. WC is 34 or 26 turns right now, working the oasis or FP respectively.

But I would also like to pop the hut before we get military. Hate to waste at least two worker turns for that though. One of Own's suggested first builds would be a worker. That would alleviate the wasted worker turns; we can even use the new worker to pop it. With a lot of food this time, I go for that.

The plan: worker first, then some warriors, work and improve FP for growth, pop hut, improve and work oases.

Science to WC at max, working the FP: ETA 26 turns.

Worker starts irrigation. Will work oasis for one turn only to have no food waste and worker out 1 turn early.

2) 3900BC
Nothing

3) 3850BC
Nada

4) 3800BC
Nichts

5) 3750BC
Finish irrigation, start road

6) 3700BC
Did the tile swap thingy. Thanks to growth next turn, worker will come in in 2.

7) 3650BC
Lux to 20%.

IT
Worker finishes road
Salamanca: Worker > Warrior

8) 3600BC
Must find optimal worker turns configuration...

Both workers have to move to an unroaded tile, Salamanca grows in 4, so stacking the workers will result in mined oasis right on time, then one worker will remain to road while the other will pop the hut...

Do it!

Science to 100% again, WC in 15 now.

9) 3550BC
Workers start mine

10) 3500BC
Rien

IT
Border expansion
A pinkish scout approaches from the east, next to our precious hut...



11) 3450BC
Meet the Arabs (again). They're up WC and CB only, no gold and one extra city (obviously, meeting at turn 11). They are annoyed. What did I do?

I can't believe this. One turn to go on the mine. That scout will pop the hut and get a tech. Or worse, they could get unlucky on purpose, just to annoy us, and pop some barbs. Well, you all now my predilection for messing with scouts from the last game, so I decide to delay the mine just a bit...

The Zapotec tribe also likes to mess with scouts. They're not the softies our workers are though. Well, I'm sure no-one will mind that our first mine will take 3 extra turns. I'm beginning to see why Bucephalus was so enthusiastic:



12) 3400BC
Lux to 10%. Our warrior stays on the look-out. Hutpopper starts road. Our city governor had the kindness to work a forest on growth. Switch FP citizen to oasis for warrior in 1. Lux to 20% because of that.

IT
Salamanca: Warrior > warrior

13) 3350BC
Science to 100% again. One citizen on FP, one on forest.

14) 3300BC
Stare at the screen again to pull off more MM tricks. Need to work the oasis right now to get both growth and warrior at the earliest time possible. Costs one beaker.

IT
Mine and road finish.
A Celt reg warrior approaches from the south, west of the incense.

15) 3250BC
They have BW, CB, 10g, and one extra town (yep, this is what you call early contact). Maybe I should have mentioned to Buce that we don't like early contacts in AW .

Worker starts oasis road. Hutpopper moves to other oasis.

IT
Celt warrior fortifies.

Salamanca: Warrior > warrior

16) 3200BC
Start another oasis road. Arab initial rush may be near. We're loosing gold now.

17) 3150BC
Niets

IT
Oasis road finished, WC time drops to 3 turns. Excellent timing.

18) 3100BC
Switch warrior to barracks as archer placeholder I'd say. Initial Arab rush will consist of about 6 warriors, so it will be close. We'll have 4 troops at least, and can attack out once at least.

Worker goes for a chop next. Hopefully for a settler, but chances are slim.

Research to 80% for break-even, WC still in 2.

IT
Incoming: 5 reg Arab warriors approach from the east. Zapotec holds for now.

Second oasis road finished.

19) 3050BC
Not enough time to finish the mine, so move Hutpopper to the NW of Salamanca. Other worker starts chop.

Research to 50% for +2gpt, WC still in 1.

IT
WC > BW (tentative)

20) 3000BC
Switch Salamanca to archer in 1. Zapotec retreats. Hutpopper starts irrigation; we need the extra shield without loosing too much food, and I'm hoping the Celts will be a while. It's only a one turn difference with a road too, so should be ok.

I'm going to stop here. Nothing has been invested in BW. I sure would have felt better with some spears against the initial rushes; some exciting turns coming up.

My opinion for the next turns:

• The chop will come in three turns, put that in another archer, and grab another shield to get it in 2 turns after the current archer. Food MM will be messed up a bit, can't be helped I think. Irrigation NW of the city will come too late.
• Keep research high. If we're going to build a wonder, I'd rather have the SoZ than the GL.
• Even though Buce played ahead so that we didn't have to, we still got some spoiler info I think: if this is a good start for the Iros, we must have horses. Or maybe he was referring to the Ivory, but I don't think so. He doesn't like building wonders in AW. (Desperately trying to read minds here.) So, go for HBR? The Wheel is more expensive (20 turns vs. 13 turns for BW right now), and then we still have another tech to go. I'd go for BW first. We don't need mounties yet.
• Try to get a settler out, and settle on the hill on our side of the river. I don't think we'll be able to afford that in the next 10 turns though.

After that:

• Take a peek from the hill south of our second town to see where we can found Ivory town.
• Explore north (should be empty lands, judging from the minimap)
• Seal off our south
• Grab the Incense
• I'd like the SoZ, so we have to squeeze in masonry and mathematics. I'd do that before IW, unless we don't have horses.

 

[Mumpulus]

 

[Bucephalus]

Maybe I should have mentioned to Buce that we don't like early contacts in AW .

lurker's comment: It's a funny old game - I met only one Civ, and it was neither of those.

Even though Buce played ahead so that we didn't have to, we still got some spoiler info I think: if this is a good start for the Iros, we must have horses. Or maybe he was referring to the Ivory

Or maybe the abundant rivers - Iroquois are Agricultural, after all.

 

[nerovats]

2 luxes a nice, not to fond of the FP they make people sick. Can give it a try. I think gealic swords are also great, and they are agricultural as well, if this one doesn't work as well.

 

[Mizar]

Checking in... up for the rematch-
Nice to have Therat also in the team , same thing here, cann't resist an AW-game.

Early contacts Hm, only 2 so far, manageble.
The hills will make some good second-ring cities and I spot the green lands north/east, me liking

And thanks to Buce for testing.

 

[Bucephalus]

And thanks to Buce for testing.

lurker's comment:

You're most welcome; I wish I had time to play.

 

[Own]

We ought to build a settler, maybe even switch from the archer to the settler. We're agri with a food abundant start, we should take advantage of it.

I have it, and might be able to play tonight.

 

[Mumpulus]

Remember there are 5 Arab warriors in the light blue oval in my picture, heading our way, ETA at Salamanca 4 turns. Our 1 conscript and 2 regular warriors are a bit light in comparison. So please let the current archer finish at least. With the chop due in 3, you can get a settler out in 4 turns after that, so 6 turns total from now. But the Celts are also underway, so you may not be able to defend both our towns then.

 

[Own]

Ok, I'll finish the archer, but we'll have to take a chance with another town, not expanding quick enough is a much bigger risk than not building enough military. I might get this done tonight, I have to finish HW.

 

[ThERat]

agree with own...after that archer we need a settler. either we make it or break it...if we sit on 1 city, we're doomed. We need to go for BW for some decent defense and then straight for maths IMHO. We need the SoZ, it's a great wonder that will go a long way really.

After that, we can aim for HBR, but that is secondary for now.

If we can expand properly and can afford to, we should go for the GL as well.

the 3rd town on the hill next to the gold would be great for obvious reasons

 

[Own]

What about right on the gold? It does waste a little commerce, but it will make other settling positions better. I was thinking a town SW of the goody hut, a town NW NW NW of that town, and one on the gold, keeping the cxxc pattern and allowing all cities to cycle units except the one by the hut and the northernmost one.

Btw, I have to play this tomorrow.

 

[cubsfan6506]

Can i join up.

 

[Mumpulus]

@cubsfan6506: as far as I'm concerned, you can join for sure. However, there are some things of which I'd like to be sure. Since I didn't really recognize your name, I checked your profile and some of your posts, and I have two concerns:

• You indicate in your profile that you are a monarch player. Also, these quotes
  

  Do u guys have a instant declare war rule.

  (198:64) (210:70). (204:65)! what do these mean.

  lead me to believe that you may not have much experience with AW. On the other hand, you're in Who-6, which is on Deity and has a lot of warmongering going on. I haven't been following that game though, so I can't assess its true difficulty level.
• Who-6 is the only SG I could find with you in it. You stated there that you can't post pictures. Also, your reports are very sparse mostly. For this game, we'll need a lot of very clear communication.

So, I'd appreciate it if you could confirm that you feel up to the task of playing this very hard game. And I'd like you to commit to writing reports that will allow everyone to understand what's going on in sufficient detail. If you can't post pictures for technical reasons, we can probably live without, but if it's at all possible to post one now and then, that would be much better.

I hope your answer will be affirmative. And I hope I haven't offended you asking these questions; after all, I'm also very new here, so no-one knows me either .

 

[Mumpulus]

On getting the settler out quickly: You guys are probably right. Like I said in Mump1, I tend to expand too slowly sometimes. For example I would never have followed up the first settler out of Rome with two more pop-based units, but looking back it was definitely the way to go. This is why SGs are so great for lifting the bar .

On settling spots: The worker chopping will probably start a road afterwards. By the time that's done, we'll probably have a unit to spare to start a quick exploration in that direction. There seems to be some good land beyond the hills. Unless something important turns up there, I'd definitely prefer not settling on the gold. Maximizing tile output and other immediate benefits (tactical and such) supersede optimal city spacing here IMO. As soon as we've explored our back yard a bit, we can do a proper dotmap.

On research path: Agree: BW - Masonry - Math

Roster
Mumpulus - Just played
Own - Playing some time today (no rush)
nerovats - On deck
Mizar
ThERat
cubsfan6506 - we're awaiting his confirmation

 

[nerovats]

Maybe we should settle the red dot first to get good defensive city in the path our enemy is using for now. It will defend the ivory a bit too. After that go for the gold, and SW of GH. Let's hope ai will let us put those FP's to good use.

I woudn't mind if Cubsfan was just a monarch player, for me he's welcome. Not seeing trough the sometimes cryptic abreviations is no problem ((s)he does ask what they mean), also AW is played using different rules.

 

[Mizar]

I agreee on settling the hill near the gold. We can do a sort of "loose" CxxC, not every city has to be placed exactly in a strict pattern.
And while we get the first 2 settlers out, we will get further intelligence.