Mump4 - AWD Standard Pangaea

Mumpulus

King
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
749
Location
Belgium (GMT+1)
Introduction

After months of work on GR18, and my general work load diminishing a bit, I do think I can fit in another game. ;)

I would like a genuine sequel to Mump3 - AWDG Standard Pangaea, by upping the difficulty level.

Proposed settings

Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: Deity
Map Size: Standard
Map Type: Pangaea (60% or 70% water, my preference being the former)
Climate, Temperature, Age: all Random

Civilization: I'd go for the Germans
Rivals: all Random
Barbarians: Random
AI Aggression: Normal

Options all set to default values

Variant: Always War (No initial trading) - First seemingly reasonable start we get or each player plays a start, whichever comes first :)

Discussion

Settings above are open to discussion. I'll give my view on some of the settings I propose above.

In my opinion, both Mump3 and GR18 proved that AW is winnable even when expansion is halted/hampered for a while. Especially once you get cav armies and rails shortly after that, a human player can cope with a lot. The main threat for AW on higher difficulty levels is tech speed and the chance of a UN or spaceship defeat. With cav armies and careful monitoring of the situation, that can be reduced to the chance of a histographic defeat. On a standard sized map, that shouldn't be an issue either.

But you do need a little luck in some department. Either you need a great start, or great combat luck, or great leader luck, or a great geography, or AI wars, etc. In Mump3, there were lots of AI wars. That compensated for a missed GL. I believe that different factors can even each other out in most cases, once you get past the first 50 or 100 turns. It's just during those early turns that you need some more reassurance. This is why I propose the Germans: they may have a useless UU if things go fast, but they have killer traits and early unit availability. We can hang on with cheap walls and barracks and spears and archers while going for IW first. I've survived some very bleak starts this way.

The reason I would go for 60% water is I would like a longer game, where we could maybe get to our UU after all. It will probably diminish our chances for a good geography (choke points etc.), but I think with good play, we can handle that.

Roster

A team of five or six as usual would be nice. I'll state the obvious just to make sure people understand what they're getting in to: this will be hard.

- Mumpulus
- Own
- Elephantium
- Greebley
- glenmetz

We have room for one more player.
 
Ooooh... dang. I feel bad because I dropped out of I. Larkin's SG due to an unexpected dive of civ interest and more schoolwork, but the civ bug is biting again after reading this. And after two more half days, I'm out of school.

I think I'm barely qualified since I beat an AWD tiny pangaea in a solo game and I've been 2 successful AWDG SGs, one continents and one pangaea, but I'm nowhere near the level of anybody who played in Gr18, plus it is during the school year so I may need skips. You can have me if you like, but I'm perfectly fine with joining only if there's not enough people or being a sub for any dropouts later.

On pangaea, things go really fast, even on high difficulties, unless you miss the GL. IIRC, Handy's AWD pan game wasn't close to being threatened by the UN. I think Germany is not the best civ, for two reasons. One, they're not agricultural, and two, if we survive until tanks, an extra movement point won't be the difference between win and loss. And I think even if we win there won't be tanks ever. Again IIRC, from Mump3 we did not ever get tanks even though it went on very long for a pangaea game. The civ I prefer would be the Mayans, but they've already been done. Celts are allright, but without scientific for early spears or industrious they get off to too slow a start. I'd go for Sumeria, despite their very early golden age.
 
lurker's comment: Good luck whoever is brave enough to sign up! :shifty:

...kidding! I'm sure with Mump, you guys will be fine. :thumbsup:
 
This is definitely above my comfort zone, but it sounds like fun.

If you're not afraid I'll lose the game for you, I'd like to join.
 
@glenmetz: "Never played a Deity game" you say... I don't think that should be a deciding factor. More important IMO are good/excellent AW and MM skills. So if you feel you have those skills, then you're welcome to join.

@Own: I think you have the AW and MM skills required. Just promise you won't make (too many) click and keystroke errors. ;)

@Elephantium: I think this game will be above anyone's comfort zone. Everyone will have to play more carefully than if they'd play a AWE or something similar. The idea is to push the limits.
 
My MM skills are good and I've been playing a lot of AW games lately. In fact, I'm playing an AW monster map presently much like TheRat's current exploits. Nothing more fun then running over the AI with stacks and stacks of units!!!!
 
I'm tempted, but I really don't think I should, considering I'm better at, well, everything that isn't warfare. Although it's true such a game would help with that, it's probably too big of a step: Rat26 AWE hasn't been too bad, but that is 60 percent archipelago, and not a pangaea.

Also, I'm playing in enough SG games, including a Deity pangaea one.

Perhaps you could write me in as an alternate in case anyone drops out. With the cotm out of the way and Rat26 almost over, I'd probably be able to do it.

-Elear
 
Ok, we have enough people to at least get started. If someone else wants to join still, no problem. I've shifted people around a bit in the proposed roster; any comments on the order, please don't hesitate to speak up.

Own has given his view on civ choice. I would like to use a civ that hasn't been used too much for AW, and I think the Germans are underrated. Agricultural civs have a big advantage, especially at the start, but we can compensate for that in a number of ways. As long as we can set up a 4-turner or 5-turner, I don't mind so much about not being agricultural.

Roster
Mumpulus
Own
Elephantium
Greebley
glenmetz

Alternates
Elear
 
I'm open on which Civ as well. In the AW monster map I'm presently playing the IRO, and the Agri trait is really powerful. Not that it would make this sort of game easier. I think militaristic would be nice for cheaper Barracks if we can't secure Sun Tzus and faster unit upgrades (more leader chances). I like the Germans due to my heritage, but I don't have any real alliance to any one particular Civ.
 
I'd also be interested to see the Germans in AW. Usually it is Rome, Iroquois, China, Greece, Maya, Persia, etc.
 
If we're going for the Germans for the challenge or a change of scenary, then fine, but agricultural is simply the bomb for AW, especially when you get to the point when all of your settlers are being produced by crap cities. IMO, AWD pang isn't exactly the place for challenging civ restrictions, but whatever. It seems everyone is agreed on it, so I'll shut up.

In picking starts, I'm more interested in the food and stuff than the geography. In Handy's game, they were surrounded on all sides, and still won, I don't think a corner start is necessary. I don't think that 3 cows and a lux are needed, but those starts are so much more fun.

Who wants to roll a start?
 
In our AWD win there were several factors enabling a win. One of them was having ivory nearby and getting SoZ. Of course, you also need to survive an initial rush. IIRC, we had players to start by themselves and post successful starts for the team.
I think you need to do that.
 
Rolling multiple starts is a good way to try start. I suggest playing more than 20 turns 30-50 depending on the initial danger.

I have played Germany in AW and they are not a bad civ, but not one of the strongest either. I am ok with them. Positioning is a bigger factor than the civ and we can't control that.

BTW, Sumeria becomes a better and better civ as the difficulty rises - to the point of being almost required when playing AWS with another player on your continent. They are quite strong for AWD and not played that much at easier levels due to the early GA.

BTW, being aggressive is a good strategy for AWD. Hurting your closest neighbors early really helps. You need to hit them before they become established and can send streams of troops. Using armies offensively is also good if you can do it without losing cities. Playing conservatively doesn't usually work very well.
 
Alright, I have 4 starts and played 1 of them for about 20 turns. Here goes.

Start 1

Save Here

Start 2

Save Here

Start 3

Save Here

Start 4

Save Here

For obvious reasons, I picked 2 and went for it. Here goes:

4000BC (1)
Move Settler 1NW, Worker Irrigates

3950BC (2)
Berlin Founded->Warrior
Sci to Pots at 100 in 20+0gpt
Thought of going for Alpha here, but could get it for no better then 50 turns and figured Pots would be good for a granary in this food rich start

3900BC (3)
zzz

3850BC (4)
zzz

3800BC (5)
Irrigate Done->Road

3750BC (6)
zzz

3700BC (7)
Berlin Warrior (MP)->Warrior

3650BC (8)
Worker finishes road, moves to other cow

3600BC (9)
Worker irrigates
Berlin is going to have an overrun but am not overly worried as the growth is more important

3550BC (10)
zzz

3500BC (11)
Berlin Warrior->Worker

3450BC (12)
1 Citizen in Berlin switched to Scientist to prevent overrun

3400BC (13)
Irrigation Done->Road

3350BC (14)
Berlin Worker->Barracks (Granary Prebuild)
Sci to 80, Pots in 3+1GPT
Worker moves 1SE to BG

3300BC (15)
Worker 2 starts mine
Sci to 60, Pots in 2+2GPT

3250BC (16)
Worker 1 Finishes Road, Moves 1 NE
Sci to 50, Pots in 1+4GPT

3200BC (17)
Pots in, Sci to 100, Alpha in 25+0GPT
Worker 1 helps with mine, Berlin changes build to granary

3150BC (18)
zzz

3100BC (19)
Mine done, move 1 worker 1 SE, other works on road

3050BC (20)
Berlin grows to size 4, 1 citizen converted to Scientist, worker moved to forest for chop

3000BC (21)
Chop started

2950BC (22)
Road done, worker moves 2 SW

2900BC (23)
Worker starts mine

2850BC (24)
Stop here as I realize I timed the chop wrong. The start doesn't look horrible, the 2 cows are great and the nearby lux is inviting.

Picture of current situation:



And the current save if anyone is interested

Enjoy folks.
 
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