Gelion
Retired Captain
Thanks for the answers!
Music downloaders face increased penalties
- Thread starter IglooDame
- Start date
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Red Stranger said:
Do you jaywalk?
Chairman Meow
Class IV
So then you would agree with the law if everything were punishable by death?Red Stranger said:
Also, what if the law is unjust? Should copyrights be eternal?* The Constitution doesn't agree with that, and although a person should be able to benefit from what they create, there comes a time when it benefits society more to "take" that non-physical "property" from the person, for the benefit of society as a whole.
* Yes, I know that the law says they are 95 years, or whatever the current law says, but they are de facto eternal, considering they are extended every time the limit comes near.
MjM
Deity
Well this sucks.
RedWolf
Deity
El_Machinae said:
In Canada we pay a "copywrite tax" on all the blank media we purchase from the stores. This money then goes back to the artists that are being stolen from.
So what sucks is to to pay a tax compensating people for an action that you're told you can't do.. So you're being double dipped - not only do you not have fair use but you're also told you have to pay a tax for the theft (that you may or may not be doing)
(although its debatable in Canada as to whether digital copywrite infringement truly is illegal here - some say this same tax would ensure that copywrite infringement charges for music downloading would not stick if challenged in court)
Edit: Edited for clarity as the last one was a mess due to talking on the phone at the same time.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Perhaps people should make a stand and just say no to any downloads and show that if people are not going to reasonable with this then perhaps they are not worth our time and effort to downlaod anything.
kingjoshi
King
No downloads or sales and the RIAA will just say that people are stealing their music using undetectable methods. And they would create even worse laws.classical_hero said:
Sony created software that allowed anyone to take over your computer. Even if you didn't want it on your computer, when you inserted the audio disc, it would install the software. Any person would have been jailed and fined heavily for it. Sony gets no such punishment.
People talk about 'legal' here constantly as though corporations can't buy laws, as Disney and the 'content' industry has done with copyrights. Disney takes old stories (Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin, etc) and makes money off of it. But having their copyrights expire within a reasonable timeframe would lessen incentives for artists and inventors?
People talk about the market fixing the problems while neglecting that while copyrights were created by the government for the benefit of society, the industry has spent enough money to convince people regarding some asinine idea about moral rights to copyrights. We're talking about moral rights to some entity called a corporation which is legally now a person, but can never be punished as such!
New evidence shows the RIAA lying to the Department of Justice about forming a monopoly (read cartel) on online music distribution. The RIAA has already been convicted on price fixing! They lost their moral and legal rights to the copyright of thier music as their cartel committed such crimes. But with their legal power, don't expect justice in any courtroom.
Red Stranger
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2005
- Messages
- 1,678
No, I don'twarpus said:
Chairman Meow said:
Actually I was going to make a thread about it. My philosophy is, if the punishment is harsh, people won't commit the crime.
The more you make unnecessarily harsh punishments, the more backlash you could face, depending on what the punishment is for.Red Stranger said:
Do it too often with too many things, from trivial to matters of freedom, and you might get an uprising. There won't be an uprising over this, but the possibility of a backlash, as far as sales are concerned, might be real.
kingjoshi
King
So all the murders despite capital punishment (or even life in prison) doesn't dissuade you from this philosophy?Red Stranger said:
Let's go something beyond man's law. Despite the difficulties of raising children, STDs and danger to one's own life, have teenagers stopped premarital sex? There are still lots of people that don't use condoms!
Penalties can be used as a deterrent, but it has its limitations. Ramping up the level of punishment then falls under the law of diminishing returns.
Stealing a CD from a store? Misdemeanor. Sharing a copy of a song (and not depriving anyone from the original)? a $150,000 offense with jail time. And have people stopped doing so? No! If that doesn't make you question your philosophy, then it's no longer a philosophy. It's a religious belief based upon faith despite evidence to the contrary.
Red Stranger made a new thread on it, let's take that there.
Still, I must say that the punishments for this is quite excessive. Might only encourage more techno-people to find ways around it.
Still, I must say that the punishments for this is quite excessive. Might only encourage more techno-people to find ways around it.
superisis
His Highness' dog at Kew
kingjoshi said:
Hear hear! There are no laws set in stone (unless you are a religious fundie believing the ten commandments should replace our existing laws). This is a society, where we focus on what is best for that society. Copying music and peer sharing has been a blessing for most folks out there. I don't due it personally (due to having stupid lap top, etc...) but I do condone. Heck, the Swedish culture minister recently passed a law that all but condoned it!
Might the big companies lose due to this? Yes. What about artists such as Madonna and Metallica? Yes. Guess what, they are still winners in our society, living lives that are much better than the average person. Sorry, if you don't want people to steal your music, don't become a successful musician (though, guess again, people will still become successful musicians).
In the times of Pele, Maradona and Müller football stars weren't paid as much as now, did that stop them?
Peer sharing might decrease the economic profits of becoming an artist, but it increases the social ones (most notably, fame). So I don't think that it will stifle musical progress. Such an idea is laughable.
kingjoshi
King
I just want to state that while I have partaken in copyright infringement, it's not something I currently frequent in. I go to the library to get my movies (we can check out 20 DVDs at a time!). And I have a free 6-month subscription to Yahoo! Music.
RedWolf
Deity
superisis said:
The best thing about peer to peer was that it forced the $1 a song business model (or other ballpark figure).
I love being able to buy ONLY the songs I actually like. I had all but stopped buying CD's because I hated paying $20 for a disc for the one or two songs I liked... Now I buy songs by artists from a variety of genres that I never would have bought before - instances where I like ONLY that song for example.
I've purchased more music in the last year then I had in the 5 years previous to that.
superisis
His Highness' dog at Kew
one thing that truly baffles me is how computer developers hold on to decade old games. Please, release them to the public already! Are you truly selling that many copies of Warcraft 2 Blizzard? Just let it go. I can only see positive things coming out of it. Releasing old games for free on the net can spark large amounts of interest and create hype for newer games of that series. Rockstar did this with GTA and GTA2. Are they suffering economically?
I guess one downside would be losing competition due to gamers playing free games instead. But seriously, did the release of Arena for free on the net decline the sales of Oblivion?
I guess one downside would be losing competition due to gamers playing free games instead. But seriously, did the release of Arena for free on the net decline the sales of Oblivion?
kingjoshi
King
ID did the same thing with Quake. However, Nintendo will be selling old games with the Revolution.
It's no longer about general welfare. It's about depriving a corporations right to make every last cent. Despite harm to the society and even at the costs of increasing funding to prosecute people.
It's no longer about general welfare. It's about depriving a corporations right to make every last cent. Despite harm to the society and even at the costs of increasing funding to prosecute people.
Alpine Trooper
AllCiv
Just move to Canada, Americans. Leave your Conservative ridden fascist regime.
MjM
Deity
Alpine Trooper said:
Canada is too cold.
Alpine Trooper
AllCiv
Then help us invade America. Plans have been underway for awhile. 
MjM
Deity
Alpine Trooper said:Then help us invade America. Plans have been underway for awhile.
You kidding me? The Mounties wont be able to do much.
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