Musical Themes Wishlist

Guandao · Apr 15, 2017

altayrneto · Apr 15, 2017

Austria: Blue Danube (Johann Strauss II)

Spoiler :

Portugal: Mare Nostrum (Medieval II Total War)

Spoiler :

Bizantine Empire: The Bizantine Empire (Cruzader Kings)

Spoiler :

Italy: La Traviata (Verdi); Tarantella

Spoiler :

Morningcalm · Apr 16, 2017

altayrneto apparently doesn't like to read the fine print. "Please do not suggest music which is copyrighted" is right there in the parent post.

From my Design Your Own Civ thread (my suggestions), the musical theme for Korea could be Sujecheon, composed in the Silla era. (If anyone from Firaxis is reading this, a great musical theme if you choose Sejong as Korea's leader again would be Yeomillak, composed by Sejong the Great himself).

God of Kings · Apr 17, 2017

Canada:

The Maple Leaf Forever (Alexander Muir)

Muir died in 1906 (and was Canada's unofficial national anthem), thus should easily be in the public domain

The Ancient Era version of the Maple Leaf Forever would involve Celtic-style fiddle music, the Medieval Era would feature the same but with drums and fifes, the Industrial Era would feature a full orchestra, and the Atomic Era would include piano, synthesizers, and theremin to the orchestra.

Uberfrog · Apr 17, 2017

For the Zulu I'd suggest Mbube by Solomon Linda, a South African singer (of Zulu descent), which many of you may recognise as the inspiration behind The Lion Sleeps Tonight...

Spoiler Video :

God of Kings · Apr 17, 2017

For Canada, there's also Land of the Silver Birch.

Dirk Hartog · Apr 17, 2017

Another option for the Netherlands could be Unico Wilhelm Graf Van Wassenaer's 6 concerti. I would love to see how the atomic era would sound.

Zaarin · Apr 20, 2017

Why "Hymn to Nikkal" for Carthage? I know Civ5 did it, but really the only civilizations I could see it really making sense for would be the Hurrians/Mitanni (who wrote it originally) or the Babylonians, Assyrians, or Persians (who conquered them)--I'd find it acceptable for Sumer and Elam simply because they're in the same region and era. But it's a strange choice for Carthage, IMO, which was at its peak a thousand years later and 2,500 miles away. What would I offer in its stead? Good question. I'm not aware of any surviving Carthaginian or even Phoenician music, but I believe there is some reasonably old Jewish music. The Phoenicians and Jews were extremely closely related, so I would find that acceptable.

The Islander · Apr 21, 2017

For England, Jerusalem by William Blake, both somber and uplifting.

Guandao · Apr 21, 2017

Zaarin said:
Why "Hymn to Nikkal" for Carthage? I know Civ5 did it, but really the only civilizations I could see it really making sense for would be the Hurrians/Mitanni (who wrote it originally) or the Babylonians, Assyrians, or Persians (who conquered them)--I'd find it acceptable for Sumer and Elam simply because they're in the same region and era. But it's a strange choice for Carthage, IMO, which was at its peak a thousand years later and 2,500 miles away. What would I offer in its stead? Good question. I'm not aware of any surviving Carthaginian or even Phoenician music, but I believe there is some reasonably old Jewish music. The Phoenicians and Jews were extremely closely related, so I would find that acceptable.

No idea what to put under Carthage :undecide:

, plus Hurrians/Mitanni will likely never be added to Civ6. Was Ugarit a Phoenician city in the past?
Surviving Carthaginian melodies is non-existent, not sure where to look for reasonably old Jewish music, any suggestions?
I might add Tunisian folk songs for Carthage...

The Islander said:
For England, Jerusalem by William Blake, both somber and uplifting.

I don't think another melody for England will be added. Pericles and Gorgo have the same exact theme. I could be proven wrong...

Morningcalm · Apr 21, 2017

Zaarin said:
Why "Hymn to Nikkal" for Carthage? I know Civ5 did it, but really the only civilizations I could see it really making sense for would be the Hurrians/Mitanni (who wrote it originally) or the Babylonians, Assyrians, or Persians (who conquered them)--I'd find it acceptable for Sumer and Elam simply because they're in the same region and era. But it's a strange choice for Carthage, IMO, which was at its peak a thousand years later and 2,500 miles away. What would I offer in its stead? Good question. I'm not aware of any surviving Carthaginian or even Phoenician music, but I believe there is some reasonably old Jewish music. The Phoenicians and Jews were extremely closely related, so I would find that acceptable.

As it turns out, Nikkal was a Phoenician goddess, so that must be why they used yet another version of the Hymn to Nikkal in Civ V (Babylon and Carthage used the theme, for those not aware). Not a strong musical connection, but neither was Li Ling Si Han, and both songs are decent enough that it's forgiveable. It would be tricky to find a Phoenician song.

Guandao · Apr 21, 2017

Morningcalm said:
As it turns out, Nikkal was a Phoenician goddess, so that must be why they used yet another version of the Hymn to Nikkal in Civ V (Babylon and Carthage used the theme, for those not aware). Not a strong musical connection, but neither was Li Ling Si Han, and both songs are decent enough that it's forgiveable. It would be tricky to find a Phoenician song.

I found another Ugaritic Hymn melody which seems to be the basis of Charlemagne's theme in Civ4, strangely enough...

Morningcalm · Apr 21, 2017

Guandao said:
I found another Ugaritic Hymn melody which seems to be the basis of Charlemagne's theme in Civ4, strangely enough...

Ah, which one?

Zaarin · Apr 21, 2017

Guandao said:
No idea what to put under Carthage , plus Hurrians/Mitanni will likely never be added to Civ6. Was Ugarit a Phoenician city in the past?
Surviving Carthaginian melodies is non-existent, not sure where to look for reasonably old Jewish music, any suggestions?

Ugarit was not Phoenician, but linguistically they were intermediate between Canaanite and Aramaic and culturally they were closely related to their Canaanite neighbors. As for old Jewish music, I've seen some claims for the antiquity of "Ashir Shirim," but I can't find any scholarship to substantiate them. It definitely has an ancient sound to it, though.

Morningcalm said:
As it turns out, Nikkal was a Phoenician goddess, so that must be why they used yet another version of the Hymn to Nikkal in Civ V (Babylon and Carthage used the theme, for those not aware). Not a strong musical connection, but neither was Li Ling Si Han, and both songs are decent enough that it's forgiveable. It would be tricky to find a Phoenician song.

I see the claim on Wikipedia, but I can't see anything there to substantiate it. She seems to be the Ugaritic interpretation of a Babylonian goddess.

(I'm willing to overlook "Li Ling Si Han" because it was one of the loveliest themes in Civ5.

)

Morningcalm · Apr 21, 2017

There are some sites I found via Google that discuss Phoenicia's connection to Nikkal:

http://phoenicia.org/music.html -> This site connects Nikkal to Phoenicia without really explaining why. Interesting musical notes though. Has some other suggestions for Phoenicia's music too!

A Google book, Encyclopedia of Gods and Goddesses of Mesopotamia Phoenicia ..., Volume 2 by Maximillien De Lafayette, states on p. 89 that Nanna, the moon god, was known as Nikkal in Phoenician and Aramaic.

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Canaan/Canaan_religion.htm states that "Nikkal-and-Ib" was 'great lady and clear/bright/fruit' or 'Great goddess of fruit' (Ningal)

Not very reputable sources per se, so they might be echoing each other, but there seems to be some vague Internet consensus that Nikkal was a goddess in Phoenicia (and married to the moon god).

[Agreed on Li Ling Si Han, by the way. I can't count the number of times I listened to Attila's war theme outside of Civ V]

Zaarin · Apr 21, 2017

Morningcalm said:
Nanna, the moon god, was known as Nikkal in Phoenician and Aramaic.

Strange, since Nana/Nin was male.

Thanks for the sources, though. I suppose Nikkal does have some tenuous connection with Phoenicia at least, albeit probably via Ugarit. (The Phoenicians were pretty religiously diverse. There are a good number of Phoenician theophoric names invoking Osiris, Isis, and Amon, for example, mostly from Carthage but also from Canaan.)

Guandao · Apr 21, 2017

Morningcalm said:
There are some sites I found via Google that discuss Phoenicia's connection to Nikkal:

http://phoenicia.org/music.html -> This site connects Nikkal to Phoenicia without really explaining why. Interesting musical notes though. Has some other suggestions for Phoenicia's music too!

A Google book, Encyclopedia of Gods and Goddesses of Mesopotamia Phoenicia ..., Volume 2 by Maximillien De Lafayette, states on p. 89 that Nanna, the moon god, was known as Nikkal in Phoenician and Aramaic.

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Canaan/Canaan_religion.htm states that "Nikkal-and-Ib" was 'great lady and clear/bright/fruit' or 'Great goddess of fruit' (Ningal)

Not very reputable sources per se, so they might be echoing each other, but there seems to be some vague Internet consensus that Nikkal was a goddess in Phoenicia (and married to the moon god).

[Agreed on Li Ling Si Han, by the way. I can't count the number of times I listened to Attila's war theme outside of Civ V]

A song similar to Charlemagne's themes can be downloaded from the first site.

Morningcalm · Apr 21, 2017

Found it--Ugaritic Hymn. Wonder why it was used for Charlemagne. Strange. Maybe some sort of musical in-joke.

Guandao · Apr 22, 2017

Morningcalm said:
Found it--Ugaritic Hymn. Wonder why it was used for Charlemagne. Strange. Maybe some sort of musical in-joke.

I could ask one of Civ4's composers. That would be interesting.

God of Kings · Apr 28, 2017

For the Czechs, there's Smetana's Má vlast.

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