Mutually exclusive buildings

Kurtbob

Prince
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As far as I can tell, there are only two sets of mutually exclusive buildings; barracks and stable, artifact museum and art museum. Would you like to see more mutually exclusive buildings in Civ6? Do you want mutually exclusive buildings to be dropped?

I personally would like to see more buildings added to the game but be mutually exclusive. I think it would allow for more roleplaying and city specialization.

Examples: choice between shrine or alter; Monotheistic temple or polytheistic temple; Market or Grocer; fossil fuel power plant or nuclear power plant, etc.

The differences between the buildings should be fairly different but balanced.

Thoughts?
 
I would also like to see some other options that we could choose between in buildings.
 
I was going for generic building names, but i understand. Probably better to have completely different building names (ala barracks vs stable) than X temple and Y temple.
 
A quick list of potential mutually exclusive buildings. I can't help but notice the number of buildings missing from this itinerary of Civ, most notably Hospitals and other medical structures.

Library - Academy- Apothecary

University – Observatory - Hospital

Research Lab - Proving Ground - Clinic

Shrine - Alter

Temple – Church or Reliquary

Barracks – Stable

Armory - Arsenal

Military Academy –Intelligence Agency

Amphitheater – Puppet Theatre (probably weird, but long history)

Art Museum – Archaeological Museum

Broadcast Center – Movie Theater

Lighthouse – Docks or Marina

Shipyard – Coastal Fortress - Customs House

Seaport - Naval Academy

Arena – Symposium -Park

Zoo – Fairgrounds – Race Track

Stadium – Amusement Park - Casino

Market – Grocer – Apothecary

Bank – Guild Hall – Mint

Stock Exchange – Trade Union

Workshop - Forge

Factory – Blast Furnace

Power Plant – Nuclear Plant - Manufactory

Hangar – Flight School

Airport – Military Air Base
 
We could throw some ideas for the effects of each one, but I think a modder should create its own thread in the Modding forum.

And please add a link here.
 
I still think mutually exclusive buildings should partly be used a a way to create a stronger synergy between districts and terrain. Have alternative buildings that provide benefits to adjacent tiles of a certain terrain type for example, or have a building add bonus yields to resources in the city's territory. Those buildings should be weaker by default, but stronger if placed in the right city. That reward players who pay attention and understand what they're doing and brings us closer to a game where you truly "play the map".
 
I still think mutually exclusive buildings should partly be used a a way to create a stronger synergy between districts and terrain. Have alternative buildings that provide benefits to adjacent tiles of a certain terrain type for example, or have a building add bonus yields to resources in the city's territory. Those buildings should be weaker by default, but stronger if placed in the right city. That reward players who pay attention and understand what they're doing and brings us closer to a game where you truly "play the map".

I thought about modding something like this--the problem is the AI is not at all programmed to handle that kind of thing, so it just feels like a cheap player advantage.

As to the general topic, I agree on the subject of mutually exclusive buildings being an excellent way to expand upon the game. TCS's Omnibus had some of this, but it's not compatible with the latest patch and the owner hasn't been updating it. I'm planning to implement it in a big way in the mod project I'm working on, but it also does a lot of other things so it may not be all that relevant to the topic.
 
University – Observatory - Hospital

Injure yourself falling off your horse? Gotta travel to the next city cos this one built an observatory instead of a hospital! :lol::p
 
I thought about modding something like this--the problem is the AI is not at all programmed to handle that kind of thing, so it just feels like a cheap player advantage.
That's true, but I would just handle it the same way all AI-stuff is handled, by giving them more yield bonuses. ;)

A few small modifiers to make up for the bad decisions would do just fine in a mod, as an official gameplay expansion you could offset it by slightly increasing the AIs inherent difficulty bonuses.
 
I ... will just throw in some ideas here...

I think there shouldnt be more than 2 choices for each slot to prevent cluttering and the choices should at least roughly be in line with what the district stands for, but may allow leaning towards other district types.

Theatre square:
Amphitheatre - Opera house: The opera house would unlock much later (renaissance), but has space for great works of music and yields great musician points way earlier than you could put up broadcast centres.
(Museums)
Broadcast Centre - Movie Theatre: The movie theatre has no slot for great works, but increases amenities for its city.

Campus:
Library - Academy: The library loses a bit of science, but gains one slot of great works of literature and maybe one writer point. The academy is focused on its science yield (basically, the former library).
University - Observatory: The observatory has smaller science yields than the university, but doubles the mountain adjacenty bonus.
Research lab - Botanical Garden: Less science than the research lab, but amenities, culture, and doubled rainforest adjacenty bonus.

Holy Site:
Shrine - Sacred Grove: The sacred grove forgoes the great prophet points and faith of the shrine, but yields doubled(?) pantheon yields in its city.
Temple - Monastic School: The monastic school yields less faith and loses the ability to create apostles, but offers science and scientist points in return.

Encampment:
(Barracks/Stable)
Armory - Keep: Instead of boosting the production/xp of units, the keep offers more housing and increases the defense strength of the encampment, allowing it to shoot even if its city has no walls (unlocked at castles).
Military Academy - Runway: Unlocked with flight, the runway offers the ability to station a small amount of aircraft in this encampment.

Commercial district:
Market - Caravansary: Less raw gold output, but trade routes originating from or passing through this city's trading post have longer range and increased gold return.
Bank - Guild Hall: Unlocked at guilds (duh), this building offers a fair amount of production instead of some of the bank's gold yield and adds production to incoming trade routes.
Stock exchange - Supermarket: Less gold, but additional food (including trade routes).

Entertainment district:
Arena - Fairground: Small amount of faith instead of the amenities. (The arena is so weak, it's hard to find a just as weak counterpart :p)
Zoo - Garden: No regional amenity, but increased great people points for the city and a small amount of faith.
Stadium - Amusement Park: Only one regional amenity, gold instead.

Industrial zone:
Workshop - Forge: Military units are produced faster in this city.
Factory - Ironworks: No production by itself (and thus also no regional bonus), but adjacent mines have additional production.
Power Plant - Chemical Plant: No regional production bonus, and less local production, but science instead.

Harbour:
Lighthouse - Trading port: No food or housing, but more gold. (Note: I can't imagine a harbour without a lighthouse though. How about making the lighthouse graphic baseline to this building and renaming the lighthouse "Fishery port" :p)
Shipyard - Bullwark: Unlocked at Castles, this alternative building has no further yields, but adds defenses towards the sea (protecting ships on the tile) and the ability to shoot (on water tiles).
Seaport - Deepsea Mining Base: Very late game building, that increases local production and the production of space projects for all of your cities. (This is a bit experimental, especially as there is a policy card that does basically the same locally. It allows non-spaceport cities to contribute though. Other ideas were around nautical research buildings.)

Aerodrome:
Hangar - Hotel: Instead of allowing more aircrafts and production, this building improves the tourism generated in the city.
Airport - Military Airbase: I think the Airport should be a building increasing tourism and gold, while the Military Airbase takes the airports former production and aircraft bonuses.
 
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Btw - I also think health buildings (like hospital) should have a comeback somehow, but they might want to have their own district (or be added to aqueduct).
 
It would make districts more interesting. At the moment they are rather dull, as in they all end up developing the same way
 
Hospitals could be a city center building that adds housing or an Aqueduct district building, though it would be limiting due to Aqueduct's placement restrictions. Perhaps the Neighborhood district? It is the increase housing district. Supermarkets would fit in there as well.
 
I think Neighborhoods (with another name and less housing) should be moved to the Aqueduct's place and the Aqueduct be converted into a building. It'd be something like this:
  • Neighborhoods (unlocked at Engineering): +1 Housing, +1 additional Housing if tile is Charming, +2 additional Housing if tile is Breathtaking (not cumulative)
  • Aqueduct (also unlocked at Engineering): +1 Housing, +1 Amenity if tile is Charming or better
  • Hospital (unlocked at Education): +2 Housing
  • Sewers (unlocked at Sanitation): +2 Housing, +1 Amenity
Additional Neighborhoods could be unlocked at certain techs (for example, Industrialization and Electricity).
 
I ... will just throw in some ideas here...
Absolutely fantastic ideas. In some cases you might even add 3rd choice maybe?
As for now it's rather difficult close to impossible to create new graphics that is visible in districts. So, it would be prudent to actually come up with names and functions that could be portrayed by current visuals of buildings.
Other thing - to teach AI how to choose which building to build. But it seems that it is doable, through so-called favorites lists, don't remember the exact name now.
Anyway, I think it's doable.
 
How would unique buildings play into all of this? Would the unique building be mutually exclusive of the other buildings or replace one or all of the choices?

Example, current situation: You are playing Norway. Your unique building is the Stave Church. The Stave Church replaces the Temple; therefore you must built the Stave Church.

Example using Cerilis's list: again you are playing Norway.

Your unique building is the Stave Church. You have three build choices: build a Temple, Monastic School, or Stave Church.
- OR-
You have two build choices, build a Temple (Stave Church if replaced) or Monastic School (Stave Church if replaced).
-OR-
You have one build choice, build a Stave Church (it replaces all other choices).

I personally like the two build choices, but unique buildings would generally be your go to build, unless of course alternative buildings were added that included great work slots or district/terrain synergy bonuses for the player to choose from.

Thoughts?
 
I think Neighborhoods (with another name and less housing) should be moved to the Aqueduct's place and the Aqueduct be converted into a building. It'd be something like this:
  • Neighborhoods (unlocked at Engineering): +1 Housing, +1 additional Housing if tile is Charming, +2 additional Housing if tile is Breathtaking (not cumulative)
  • Aqueduct (also unlocked at Engineering): +1 Housing, +1 Amenity if tile is Charming or better
  • Hospital (unlocked at Education): +2 Housing
  • Sewers (unlocked at Sanitation): +2 Housing, +1 Amenity
Additional Neighborhoods could be unlocked at certain techs (for example, Industrialization and Electricity).


I think this is an excellent idea :)


Alternative Neighborhood District Names: Borough District - Quarter District- Suburb District - Utility District- Community District - Locality District- Service District- Habitation District - Residence District - Settlement District


Since this is the mutually exclusive building thread (Yes I'm overdoing it, but the more ideas out there the better):


Aqueduct: Mid build cost. +1 Housing, +1 Housing for each adjacent Neighborhood District with an aqueduct. (An aqueduct graphic connecting the districts would be neat). Maintenance 2.

Apothecary: Mid build cost. +1 Housing, +1 Science, +1 Culture. Maintenance 2

Baths: Mid build cost. +1 Housing, +1 Amenity. Maintenance 2. Tile must have fresh water to build.

Well: Low build cost. +1 Housing. Maintenance 1

Cesspit: Low build cost. +1 Housing, -1 Amenity. Maintenance 0


Hospital: Mid build cost. +2 Housing. Maintenance 2

Orphanage: Mid build cost. +1 Housing per eight citizens in city. Maintenance 2

Sanatorium: Mid build cost. +1 Housing. Additional +1 Housing, +1 Amenity if Desert Tile. Maintenance 2.


Sewers: High build cost. +3 Housing. Maintenance 3

Waterworks: High build cost. +1 Housing. Additional +1 Housing, +1 Amenities if tile has fresh water. Maintenance 3.

Health Spa: Mid build cost. +1 Housing, Tourism generated; the exact amount is twice the Appeal of the tile on which the Health Spa was built (same as seaside resort). Tile must be adjacent to mountain.


Water Treatment Plant: High build cost. +3 Housing. Maintenance 4.

Desalinization Plant: Very High build cost. +5 Housing. Maintenance 6. Tile must be adjacent to Coast.
 
How would unique buildings play into all of this? Would the unique building be mutually exclusive of the other buildings or replace one or all of the choices?

Example, current situation: You are playing Norway. Your unique building is the Stave Church. The Stave Church replaces the Temple; therefore you must built the Stave Church.

Example using Cerilis's list: again you are playing Norway.

Your unique building is the Stave Church. You have three build choices: build a Temple, Monastic School, or Stave Church.
- OR-
You have two build choices, build a Temple (Stave Church if replaced) or Monastic School (Stave Church if replaced).
-OR-
You have one build choice, build a Stave Church (it replaces all other choices).

I personally like the two build choices, but unique buildings would generally be your go to build, unless of course alternative buildings were added that included great work slots or district/terrain synergy bonuses for the player to choose from.

Thoughts?

Good point, but I think they would just replace whatever they replace and keep the other choice(s). Similar to how Victoria's LUA (or was that England's?) only improves the archaeological museum but leaves the art museum alone. Maybe if it doesnt replace anything, it's just an additional choice?

Example: If there was Carthage with a harbour unique building "Coton", that has the same defensive aspects of the Bullwark from my list, but comes earlier and yields extra gold, it would completely replace the Bullwark (because it has the same base effect anyway), but leave the shipyard alone (that has a different effect).
The stave church from your example is just like an improved temple, and those don't have extra effects, so you dont lose anything by replacing them...
But now, if there was an unique building, that doesn't build upon one of the standard choices and doesn't share their special abilities (if they have ones), it could be an additional choice. Like, uh...
Ah! In Civ5, the Iroquois Longhouse replaced the workshop, but it lost some of its stats (the % modifier), and added the forest bonus. In a case like that, I guess it would be appropriate to have the Longhouse be an additional choice? Though it may also be a balance choice to lose a building's ability, on the other hand.

I think this edit got a bit out of hand. I hope i didnt mess up my post.


Another solution could be that unique buildings, properly balanced, replace a full slot, but have all combined effects if one of the choices had a special effect that was more than just yields. I think that would kinda defeat the point of choices though...
 
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