My 80K game journal

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Moonsinger, May 22, 2004.

  1. binyo66

    binyo66 King

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    Great, I forgot about "production bonus." :(. U r right, most likely she got more units than she could afford it. But, it brings up another question, why russia picked up mayan for the war? because mayan owe a lot of money? because mayan was the weakest? neighbour? or russia was AI :D?
     
  2. ossi

    ossi Chieftain

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    Why did you choose "sedentary barbarians"? Aren't "no barbarians" better, since you can't get settlers or techs in SID-level anyway!? But I think the AI can get techs or settlers. Or am I wrong?
     
  3. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    I'm not sure why she ran out of money. My guess is that some of her gpt deals with other civs ran out and she didn't readjust her science slider.
     
  4. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    My Mayan was the weakest civ of all until the end.:) Most of the time, I got less than 200 military units while each of the AI had at least 400 or more. Even for Sumerians and Koreans, most of their forces were archers and spears which can't possibly stand a chance against my muskets and cavalry, but according to my advisor, they had a much stronger military. When I asked them to leave, they declared - very typical of them.

    Anyway, at that time, the Russia and Persia had the most advance troops in the world. They already got a ton of Infantrymans when they declared war on me. In any case, they were absolutely no threat to me at all .:) Because I was on a different and far away continent, other than landing a few units trying to take my undefended palace now and then, I have never seen the AI mounting any major offensive away from their home continent. I guess we could say that an archipelago map is an exploit because the AI don't know how to wage war on this type of map.
     
  5. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    You are absolutely right that the AI can get techs and settlers from the huts on Sid and the human player can't. "No barbrians" may be a much better setting for Sid. In this case, I forgot to turn it off, but it was no big deal. Since I initially built workers for exploration and no military unit, it was impossible to get barb from the huts.
     
  6. binyo66

    binyo66 King

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    @moonsinger by not having a military units how did u set the luxs. slider in the beginning of the game? do u think it's the best not to have any military unit in the beginning of the game or just for SID level? is it possible to get warrior from the hut in SID?

    BTW, sorry too many questions :D
     
  7. Aeson

    Aeson orangesoda Retired Moderator

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    You can get warriors, maps, and gold from huts on Sid.
     
  8. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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    I did get warriors from a couple huts at the beginning, but just disbanded them for shields. Note: Just as long as we don't have any military unit, we don't get barbs from the huts. After all the near by huts were popped, I kept a warrior from the outer huts and sent him to explore the outer ring while ordered my workered to start building road back. Overall, I got two warriors for shields and a few stack of gold (25g each).:) May be that was the reason why I subconsciously selected "sedentary barbs" rather than "no barbs" at the time.
     
  9. Offa

    Offa Bretwalda

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    Sorry to hear of your retirement. Civ is pretty addictive, but a relatively harmless addiction. If only it was faster to play.

    How long did this game take? It seems these HOF milked games are particularly onerous judging from SirPleb's game. Brilliant game to finish with though.
     
  10. Moonsinger

    Moonsinger Settler Retired Moderator

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  11. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    This may sound strange, or at least I find it strange... the 9% interest rate happens because of the aggression level setting (which I found out last year in the Sid XOTM game, which I never finished or submitted). Had this game gotten played on "normal" aggression or some other level, you couldn't get 18 gold for 1 gpt... it's more like 14 gold for 1 gpt or something like that say on normal aggression. This has nothing to do with the level of the game.
     
  12. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Oops. Did some checking in DEBUG mode.

    At less aggressive,
    Osman Gracious -9 is willing to give 16 gold for 1 gpt.

    Osman Gracious -8 will give 1 gpt for 15 gold. The negative numbers are the AI attitude.

    Osman Gracious -8 will give a worker (I gave him one, then bought it back) for 119 gold.

    Gandhi -11 Gracious will give 17 gold for 1 gpt, and requires 106 gold for a worker.
    So, the numbers at least vary within a certain range.

    I would be surprised though if I hadn't bought a worker from a least aggressive AI who was annoyed or worse with me though.

    The AI attitude appears to be one factor, and aggression level changes default AI attitude. So, aggression level does have an effect, but it's not the direct cause of the minimum cost of a worker or the minimum exchange rate of gold for gold per turn.

    Edit: At least aggressive:

    Polite -2, 1 gpt for 18 gold.

    Gracious -12, 1 gpt for 18 gold.

    Furious 60 (couldn't seem to get any higher), 1 gpt for 18 gold.

    Worker also cost 100 gold at furious 60.

    So, it looks like the best exchange rate for the human player is constant at least aggression. But, for less aggressive the best exchange rate and worker cost can vary depending on AI attitude.

    Thus, my previous comment looks correct for Moonsinger's game and other minimum/least aggression games, but when I've made claims about the cost for games with other aggression levels after just checking once, that's where I've been wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
  13. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Most aggressive setting:

    Annoyed 2: 1 gpt for 14 gold.

    Gracious -8: 1 gpt for 15 gold.

    Polite -6: 1 gpt for 15 gold.

    Polite -4: 1 gpt for 14 gold.

    Furious 18: 1 gpt for 13 gold.

    Furious 60: 1 gpt for 10 gold.

    I didn't check between furious 18 and furious 60. I'd need to call up another AI, and I'm distressed from his anger level. More seriously, I don't think it's necessary to check that there's variance here (unless there's interest in what the exact numbers are, I suppose).

    My previous claim about it being the AI attitude level is incorrect. It's BOTH the AI attitude level AND the aggressive level having an effect on what the best exchange rate is.
     
  14. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Oops. I'm using the C3X mod from the GOG version to test this (C3X mod makes it easier to find the optimum number.. the autofill suggested number has been correct every time I've tested it). I doubt that changes anything, but just in case.

    Normal aggression:

    Annoyed 1: 1 gpt for 14 gold.

    Cautious 0: 1 gpt for 14 gold.

    Polite - 4: 1 gpt for 14 gold.

    Polite -5: 1 gpt for 15 gold.

    Gracious -9: 1 gpt for 15 gold.

    Furious 60: 1 gpt for 10 gold.

    Normal aggression thus appears similar to most aggressive.

    More aggressive:

    Polite -4: 1 gpt for 14 gold.

    Gracious -14: 1 gpt for 15 gold

    Furious 60: 1 gpt for 10 gold.

    I did NOT get these numbers on the same map with the same tribes. However, in each case, I did so by founding and city, putting some gold in my treasury, and parking a settler outside of an AI's capital in 3950 BC to contact them, gifting them some gold initially so that they had at least 18 gold, checking the rate, gifting some more, repeating that process, and then making demands for gold to make them furious.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022

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