My apologies to the Phoenicians

PSG

Warlord
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
102
I don't know why I even gave them another try, but I did and it was painful. I managed to build a few MQs and 3 of their special ports before I followed them up with Carthage. Having all 6 silk near my capital really helped. Built the Pyramids as Carthage and the stacked Cothons & Ports next to the Phoenician port (I forget the name) I used an early ship to explore and opened up trade routes with 2 NPCs. Got to Land Rights-Inherited Land as soon as I could. This let me attach outposts to my capital like crazy. Changed to Khmer (I know it's OP, but I am playing to see how fast I can finish the tech tree). Kept adding outposts to my Capital. Barays at the end were producing 120+ production along with 12 to 20 food. Switched to Muggles Jama Masjids producing 140+ Transitioned into the French had to build a tin of commons quarters so I didn't go into revolt. At this point I was building about 4 commons quarters in a single turn. Switched to pure science and finished on turn 301 with about 20 turns as Japan... which bested my best time by 4 turns. My second best game 305 turns was Harrapans, Celts, Khmer, Muggles, France into Japan so I have to apologize. At least so far my best game starting with Egypt is 313 so they are probably not the best starting culture.

In summary the Phoenicians combined with Carthage gave me huge gold production which allowed me to add 4 or 5 extra outposts to my capital which just snowballed my Baray/Jama Masjid production which means I owe the Phoenicians an apology.
 
My only Slower speed game was with Phoenicians and it’s a painful start indeed! Did you Influence buy a bunch of EQ before/after the transition to Carthage? I might play slower than you, but especially if planning to use Land Rights (or whichever one is the gold-to-attach) I found this pair gets a ton of EQ quite early if you postpone attaching territories. Add in the food-on-water tenant and you get most of the benefit of a food culture as well.

Cool to hear how this plays out in the long run, I’ve never finished a Phoenicia game since I get bored when I’ve already clinched the fame game.

How did Phoenicians/Carthage work for you militarily? I’ve always found the synergy of training a bunch of warriors/archers as Phoenicia and adding some elephants ASAP as Carthage (with the gold to upgrade a bunch of swords) allowed for some very swift conquest, which has even done well against the Persians, who should be it’s counter.
 
My only Slower speed game was with Phoenicians and it’s a painful start indeed! Did you Influence buy a bunch of EQ before/after the transition to Carthage? I might play slower than you, but especially if planning to use Land Rights (or whichever one is the gold-to-attach) I found this pair gets a ton of EQ quite early if you postpone attaching territories. Add in the food-on-water tenant and you get most of the benefit of a food culture as well.

Cool to hear how this plays out in the long run, I’ve never finished a Phoenicia game since I get bored when I’ve already clinched the fame game.

How did Phoenicians/Carthage work for you militarily? I’ve always found the synergy of training a bunch of warriors/archers as Phoenicia and adding some elephants ASAP as Carthage (with the gold to upgrade a bunch of swords) allowed for some very swift conquest, which has even done well against the Persians, who should be it’s counter.

I play defensively with as few armies as I can get away with. I will snipe the infant cities the barbarians put up or buy them, but I always pay off the aggressive ones since they crap out military as if their production, population, research and resources do not matter....

For the record as a test I used my new refined strat going all production until France and just finished a game on turn 288 with the last few turns as Japan.
 
אמרו לך לשלם נסלח לך :p
They say, "Go in peace. We forgive you." :p

Edit1: Apparently this board does not support the Phoenician alphabet. :(
Edit2: Used Hebrew square script instead.
 
The Phoenicians can be a bit slower but if you combine them with Carthage then yeah...they really shine. Also if you add Norse you;ve got so much special water structure for food that you can spend those land quarters on other things and you're masters of midgame colonization.
 
After using a refined strategy the Egyptians are clearly still better overall, but if one played on a map of mostly islands and generous amounts of coastal areas in most zones then the Phoenician-Carthage strategy can work. I finished a game at 288/600 turns and had another that would have finished around 280 if the save didn't achieve perma-lock status.
 
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