My "Betrayal" Emergency

[steveg700]

So here's the scenario. Me (Babylon) and Trajan are long-time allies. However, the AI tells him to go for RV, so none of that means anything as There Can Be Only One. He starts spamming apostles at me. Now, the AI cheats with apostles in some way or other so most civ's in the player's hands can't keep pace. My inquisition can't match the pace.

He racks 200< grievances while breaking promise after promise not to convert more cities. Since we're allies, I can't do anything militarily to toss these jerks. Then the alliance ends, and I denounce. He still has plenty of grievances stacked against him. Everybody hates him now. I wait my 5 so that I can formally declare. I have many options for a CB. I choose to a joint Holy War with my other ally, Shaka. Seems like everything is above board.

Then an emergency pops. And I'm the target. I have to be dealt with for betraying Trajan. Even tho I have no other enemies, and everyone is happy if not friends, No big deal. This'll get voted down.

Blammo! Three civ's throw in a whopper of 20< votes go to war with me. They really wanted my blood. And the kicker is, of course, that Shaka threw or alliance away to get in on the action. I might not mind riding this out, except that when all is said and done the rewards for the emergency are paltry compared to the cancelled trade and deals this is costing me. For 60 freakin turns.

What is the betrayal here? I went through the motions of waiting for the CB. How long was I supposed to wait before this dirtbag was fair game? And why are civ's that like me so eager for my blood? Like I said, the grievance stack was on Trajan.

Whole thing leaves a bad taste as I was clearly painted into a corner.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Yeah, the emergency system, and the world congress in general, is not good. I don’t know why the AI voted for the emergency, since you said that you had good relations with them all. Maybe they have a bias for voting for certain emergencies?

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Dont even try to make sense of the political behaviour of the AI in this game, and just accept it at face value.
Everything can seemingly happen, so just prepare for the worst and leave your immersion at the doorstep.

 

[InsidiousMage]

What is the betrayal here?

Betrayal Emergencies occur when you declare war against another Civ with which you had a level 2 or higher alliances, if I remember correctly. Doubt it would have worked but using the Retribution CB might have prevented the emergency from triggering but, again, no idea and I kind of doubt it.

 

[Chefofrats]

"Diplomacy" in Civ VI is completely idiotic overall. Your betrayal emergency is somewhat similar to the situation when a neighbouring civ sends religious units into your territory to convert your cities, you defeat those units in religious combat, and somehow it is you who ends up generating grievances - for the effect of the religious combat hitting your neighbour's cities (which you cannot prevent, even if you would like to). I guess we have to be greatful the Civ developers did not implement grievances for killing an enemy aggressor's military units in your own lands...

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

The emergency system is generally terrible.
I have no idea how the AI decides when it decides to vote in favour or against an emergency.
I still havent seen the silver lining here, so it feels rather random (and might even be random).
Often someone joins in who is across the world and I was on good terms with, so why on earth they would join an emergency like that when they have nothing to gain from it is beyond me.

I do miss civ 5's much simpler but also more effective diplomacy game.
If the AI wanted to attack someone, he'd ask his neighbours (like me) if they wanted to join in on a DOW, which I could decline or accept.
And if someone was on good terms with me, they would often tell me when someone else was mobilizing against me, which is something I appreciated and would strengthen my ties with the one telling me.
Simple but effective.

 

[steveg700]

Betrayal Emergencies occur when you declare war against another Civ with which you had a level 2 or higher alliances, if I remember correctly.

Thanks for the info. If that were the case, then there'd be no ideal wait time given that the alliance had already expired. The AI civ simply had me over a barrel.

I'm going to make the assumption Shaka is simply an aggro civ, and if he has a strength advantage, he will vote for emergencies that let him attack. The AI does not even take alliances into consideration.

Presmably when I get back to this game, the civ's will wait 10 and after having made no good effort to attack will be content to make peace.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I'm going to make the assumption Shaka is simply an aggro civ, and if he has a strength advantage, he will vote for emergencies that let him attack. The AI does not even take alliances into consideration.

I've noticed that there are a couple of emergencies, betrayal and nuke, that the AI always joins, regardless of their opinions of the target. I have no idea if this intended or not though.

 

[steveg700]

I've noticed that there are a couple of emergencies, betrayal and nuke, that the AI always joins, regardless of their opinions of the target. I have no idea if this intended or not though.

Well, three civ's voted against. They only provided one vote apiece tho. It was two civ's that really went for broke with DF. I met them late on the other side of an ocean. We'd been merrily trading amenities since.

 

[steveg700]

FWIW, I did go back and try switching from holy war to retrib. Still got the emergency, and this time almost everybody voted against me this time.

Really obnoxious design. Shows a real lack of consideration for scenarios where a former deserves a DOW.

 

[Mesix]

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!​

This is one of a handful of achievements I have not completed. I have never seen a betrayal emergency to join. Is there any way to get this to happen in a game?

​

 

[fy00sh]

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!​

This is one of a handful of achievements I have not completed. I have never seen a betrayal emergency to join. Is there any way to get this to happen in a game?

​

idunno if theres a way to ensure it, but maybe if you notice in a game that civs A and B are allied, and civ A is a typically aggressive civ, then you can make friends (but not allies!) with civ A and check back for when A and B's alliance runs out, then offer civ A a bunch of stuff to engage in a joint war against civ B
if im right, and civ A accepts the offer, then you should be able to meet all the requirements to vote on a betrayal emergency against civ A, i think. anyone able to fact check if thisd be possible, and if so how feasible itd be?

 

[steveg700]

idunno if theres a way to ensure it, but maybe if you notice in a game that civs A and B are allied, and civ A is a typically aggressive civ, then you can make friends (but not allies!) with civ A and check back for when A and B's alliance runs out, then offer civ A a bunch of stuff to engage in a joint war against civ B
if im right, and civ A accepts the offer, then you should be able to meet all the requirements to vote on a betrayal emergency against civ A, i think. anyone able to fact check if thisd be possible, and if so how feasible itd be?

One major hurdle is that the alliance has get to level 2. Alliances progress by trade routes between the two allies. AI civ's have all but given up on trade routes at this point of the game, so their alliances might never level up.

It seems to only be intended as a mechanism for targeting players specifically. It's sort of a bad-faith assumption that players will cozy up to the AI just to later blindside them. AI civ's that forma alliances have their big positive diplo modifiers that will avert this kind of predation (unless, perhaps, if the "betrayee" civ invites massive grievance penalties.

Another feature nobody asked for.

 

[steveg700]

For general information, after the initial ten turns, the friendly civ's who declared war were willing to make peace...for 162 GPT each.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I give converting civs one warning - if they either don't agree to stop, or break their promise, I simply make Friends with as many civs as I want and DOW the transgressor. It is very satisfying to kill their religious units in my lands, especially if I can nail a large number. Since I don't take cities the fallout isn't that bad for a Surprise War (unless I'm still meeting new civs, then it leaves a mark for a while).

Too bad the game framework failed so miserably in implementation as noted above.