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My Civ5 Review and my probable goodbye to the game, for now ...

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by adamsolo, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Truthy

    Truthy Chatbot

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    I would like to say that the major issues are the dumb AI and this can be fixed with a few more patches. It is too bad they were broken in the first place.
     
  2. the343danny

    the343danny Emperor

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    Why are you even in this forum? I dont mind people who dont like the game but still post with a genuine effort to try to improve the game, but as far as I can see you are here just to laugh at the game.

    As for Civ 5, I see great potential in it. Mods already made a huge difference, so I am expecting a terrific game once better mods/expansions come out.
     
  3. rogue131

    rogue131 Byzantine Historian

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    Personally though, I find Bts far more entertaining than Civ 5. It seems a bit more user friendly as well and I was a bit hurt about the soundtrack change. I loved hearing the Medieval, Renassiance and Industrial music in game. Perhaps in a later patch we'll see more. What we need is something including religion, better diplomacy and something similiar to RFC. Just an opinion though, not really liking Civ 5.
     
  4. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    At this point your right only a great mod can save this game, I dont think expansions will help as much but in hopefull.
     
  5. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    Yeah, it's got potential, especially with mods, but ask yourself this:

    Did you shell out $50-60 for what essentially amounts to a game engine, or did you shell it out for a complete, satisfying game?

    Personally, even though it was a gift, if I'd paid for Civ 5 I would not feel I'd gotten my money's worth so far. I haven't played a ton, and it's not as bad as I initially thought, but on the whole I'm just finding it to be dull and slower than Civ 4. Maybe there'll be more to it as I dig deeper, but I find myself TRYING to enjoy this iteration of Civ, rather than just ENJOYING it. A lot of that has to do with how...hollow the game feels. It honestly feels like a LOT of effort was spent in prettying up the game at the expense of gameplay itself.

    It also feels like a weird mix of the complex/deep and simplistic/shallow. Combat seems far more complex now, and also far more difficult. No more "Stacks o' Doom" to roll into people's civs, ranged bombardment that actually seems more nuanced, etc....but at the same time you have "City States" that are little more than glorified money sinks and/or road blocks. And there's also the matter of a tightly cramped map having sort of a limit to the number of military units that can be used, which itself limits the potential complexity of combat and makes warfare kind of pointless since it'll end up being a stalemate anyway.

    I've played Civ 5 for probably a grand total of, like, 4-ish hours at this point. In that time, I've been either bored or irritated, but never really excited. Some of the changes seem...ok...but I'm on the fence about them (IE: social policies and 1UPT). On the whole, though, the game feels like a step forward visually (a big step, actually), and a step backwards in terms of gameplay itself.

    This is a trend in gaming that is not unique to the Civ series, but it always seemed to be something that Civ was immune to. Even Civ 3 -- my least favorite (til now) of the series -- improved certain elements of gameplay without really breaking the old stuff AND while improving the graphics. And Civ 4, out of the box, was just a lot more fun.


    So, yeah, there's potential. But I do not choose to spend my money on "potential". At this point, I'm telling my friends to wait for a "Game of the Year" edition, and even then to tread carefully. Frankly, it feels to me as if we're funding the ongoing development of Civ 5, and lining 2K's pockets in the meantime so that they can produce other stuff like Civ Facebook or whatever. I'll pass on that, thanks. Probably won't be buying the "Additional Civ and Scenario" packs either.

    I'm glad I got this as a gift, because it means I can at least not feel ripped off, but I also can't help but think "Man, it would've been nicer to have gotten a different game instead..." And I've NEVER said that about a Civ game.
     
  6. MkLh

    MkLh King

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    It's sad that mods are now desperately needed for balance issues. There were few balance-mod for Civ4 as it was a well balanced game. Modders could concentrate to create whole new content for the well working core game. Now we need mods for things like reducing production costs as 90% of buildings are now never worth building.

    Besides I'm not confident that modders will come to rescue a poor game even if it is strongly moddable. If in the long run only few players will be interested in the game, there may not be many modders either.
     
  7. al-rashid

    al-rashid Chieftain

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    Personally i think there will be enough people interested in the game when mods are out, we wouldnt be posting here if we thought the game was a lost cause imo.

    I wouldnt say its a bad game but could be alot better, in terms of depth and balance, but graphically its good. I like many others it seems have shelved the game, did play for a fair while so im not too disappointed about buying it, But its lost its appeal, possibly the only reason ive played it longer than others is i havent played civ 4 recently so couldnt really compare the two, but i remember some elements of civ 4, that i cant see why are missing, although espionage from what i can remember i hated. Hopefully theyll release that dll/sdk whatever kit thing and/or a patch soon, as all im watching out for is ducks mod tbh.
     
  8. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    I dunno. I think it could go either way. Play The World added MP and an actual world map to Civ 3, which was lacking upon release. I felt much the same way about Civ 3 as I do about Civ 5, but my opinion of it improved after the Play the World expansion came out. Still, while Civ 3 ended up getting some mods and such, as I recall there were FAR fewer mods for it for a LONG time, which in turn meant that the base game wore out pretty quickly and I moved on. By contrast, Civ 4 was very mod-friendly from the start, had a solid -- if not perfect -- foundation, and was gradually SUBSTANTIALLY expanded to become an even better game.


    Most importantly, for me at least, though are those first impressions. Every other civ game, even Civ 3 (my least favorite of the lot) grabbed me upon first playing it. I was able to sit and get sucked into an interesting game -- even if it was flawed -- and enjoy it right from the start. The same thing happened the first time I tried Europa Universalis 3, GalCiv 1, etc. These games grabbed me right out of the gate. I might have lost interest in them over time for one reason or another, or found other games that more closely matched what I wanted eventually, but my initial response was positive.

    That didn't happen with Civ 5. I kept pressing "next turn" more to see if and when the game would start to really grab me, rather than pressing it for that "one....more....turn...." feeling that leaves you groggy at work the next day because you couldn't tear yourself away until 2am. With Civ 5, I've had several "Oh screw this" moments where I've just Alt-F4ed my way out of the game because I was bored, fed up, or irritated by some element of the game.


    There's potential, no question. The engine itself seems like it could be useful and interesting. But the GAME itself, out of the box? Not so much.
     
  9. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    I would say its a bad game, but alot can be corrected with mods.
     
  10. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

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    I really like Civ V and haven't touched Civ IV since I started playing it.

    It has it's flaws, but is good overall IMHO.

    Cheers.
     
  11. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    True, but that's true of many many games. Again, the question is: did you pay for a game engine and "tech demo", or did you pay for a GAME? Me, I paid (well, asked for and got for X-mas) for a GAME. I wanted the game to be fun right out of the box. So far, I fall somewhere between "Man, this game SUCKS" and "Meh. Guess I'll stick in this game a bit longer." But I keep hitting points where I just say "Oh screw it" and quit. Short of having really bad luck (IE: "so and so built such and such wonder before I could" or the old "spearman vs. tank" scenario or somesuch) it was rare that I'd actually say "Ah screw this" and quit. Usually it was "one....more....turn..." often followed by "Holy crap!! I need to get to BED!" Not so with Civ 5. Not yet, anyway. And I kind of doubt that'll happen, if my initial reaction is any guide.
     
  12. sketch162000

    sketch162000 Warlord

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    Well said. The "potential" argument irritates me to no end precisely because the "potential" of Civ V was never really the major selling point. Moddability was always a side feature. Civ V was not primarily marketed as a modding platform that MIGHT host some deep and complex games. It was sold as a deep, complex game by itself, out of the box. The ones who are arguing "potential" obviously agree that its missed that mark, so why even attempt to look at the glass half full? To several longtime Civilization fans, Civ V is a failed game. Period. Firaxis might fix the game, but the fact remains; A lot of us did not get our money's worth in September, and it is completely unknown if we will ever get what we paid for. A classic case of "buyer beware..."

    l'll answer my own question. Why do some people continue to view Civ V with optimism even though they dislike the game? Loyalty. People have trouble putting the words "Civilization" and "sucks" into the same sentence, even if that's what they truly believe. So they come up with whatever cockamamie excuse to defend the title at all costs. Rename Civ V to "War Tribes," or whatever, no problem. People will call it like they see it. But as long as its called Civ V it's going to be a hard pill to swallow that this is simply a bad part of a beloved franchise.
     
  13. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    That's true beyond the realm of Civ games. Brand loyalty really counts, and Civ has been a pretty solid brand for a LONG time. So, I can understand the impulse to do that. I can also understand remaining loyal and patient with Firaxis if you are a customer who really believes that things WILL improve and maybe aren't as bad as folks say (even though they're flawed).

    But the game is flawed. At least from what I can tell, and for me at least it's flawed in ways that diminish my enjoyment enough that I turn the game off after short sessions, rather than getting sucked in like I used to.
     
  14. cman2010

    cman2010 King

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    I think after this civ game the brand loyalty is lost for most people.
     
  15. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    Lost? I doubt it. Not completely, anyway. But I suspect that folks will take a much more "wait and see" careful look at the next iteration, depending on the pre-release press. For example, if the press releases say things like "We heard the players complaints and are responding by doing XYZ" and XYZ happens to be what a given player wanted, even if they were ticked abotu it in Civ 5, they may pre-order or at least purchase soon after release.

    I, on the other hand, almost always take a jaundiced eye towards games anymore, reading lots of reviews and giving it several months so that the "new car smell" wears off and people can start fairly evaluating the game. With Civ 5, I just added it to an Amazon wish list and got it as a gift, so I was a little less diligent, but I definitely will be more careful for future iterations. And I likely will not be buying expansions upon release.

    Does that mean that I'll never trust the Civ brand again? Not necessarily. But it does mean that I'll be that much more careful about buying next time, and definitely will NOT buy into the hype. Instead, I'll let others do that and see what they complain about. And given that Civ too now seems to be falling into the "We'll fix it with DLC and expansions" approach, I'll likely wait for a Game of the Year edition.

    That said, my own loyalty has unquestionably diminished as a result of the present state of Civ 5. The brand loyalty that I had for Civ has been transferred elsewhere at this point.
     
  16. CivFanaticMan

    CivFanaticMan Warlord

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    I wont trust the Civ brand anymore because I no longer trust 2k
     
  17. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    Remember, Civ was a MicroProse product, then an Infogrames product, then finally a 2K game. What would you do if Civ jumped ship to another publisher?
     
  18. Ricci

    Ricci Prince

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    " ...my dear, we will always have cIV (errr.. or was it Paris)"
     
  19. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    I don't think it can, at this point. Firaxis is owned by Take Two Interactive, which owns the "Civilization" intellectual property. Firaxis / Civ can't jump ship, but Take Two could decide to sell them off to another company (which isn't a good scenario either).

    Either way, to answer the hypothetical: I'd still scrutinize the next "Civilization" offering from Firaxis (or whomever developed it) very closely and wait at least a few months to learn more about the game before buying it. Gone are the days when I pre-ordered a Civilization title or purchased it sight unseen on day one. :sad:
     
  20. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Prince

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    Yeah, I hear ya. That's about how I approach almost all games now, though.
     

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