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My custom civ - Project Discussion

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by PPQ_Purple, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Seeing as people are modding this mod of a mod quite a lot recently I thought I should give it a go as well.

    The goal of this project is for me to improve my skills in modding civ by creating a new race.
    The goal of this thread is for people to help me brainstorm and provide balance ideas for my project.

    Alright to start:

    Civ Name: /Is still secret/
    Target Play Style: Expansionist with a focus on mele and magic units

    Unique Mechanics:

    1. Blaze Mana
    - A new type of mana only available to this civilization. It is gained automatically for each pair of Fire+Creation mana they own. Gives their UU mages access to a new spell sphere (conveniently named blaze).

    2. Unique Mele Units
    - The mele units of this faction have no access to metal weapons but get +1 Fire Affinity and get a 10% production bonus for corn, wheat and rice

    3. Unique Mages
    - Their UU mage line only have access to the Fire, Creation and Blaze spheres but gain powerful spells (especially from the later) and a unique replacement for Creation 2.

    Spells as fallow:
    Blaze 1: Adds a 1 turn promotion giving Blaze Affinity to units in the stack. Also, any summoned unit gains +1 blaze affinity.
    Blaze 2: A spell that transforms any mana node into a fire note
    Rebirth (replaces Creation 2): A replacement for fertility that transforms cow/dear/sheep/pigs into corn/wheat/rice and turns mana nodes into Creation nodes.


    4. Vegetarians
    - No access to animal resources. They can still use fur.
    I plan to balance this by having them gain from Creation Mana and have the resources they have give a bonus for each resource up to 5-6 instead of just up to 2.

    5. Unique Religion
    - Represented by a UB for Pagan Temple and the Agnostic Trait.


    Any ideas? Balance tips? Help on implementation? General ratings?
     
  2. Aoleleb

    Aoleleb Warlord

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    So you made a TIER TWO spell do something an adept can do in a few turns...? o.O
     
  3. Kalina

    Kalina Just lurking...

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    Well, you actually need Sorcery (and metamana) to do this. But right, still not very impressive :)
     
  4. Aoleleb

    Aoleleb Warlord

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    Oh... Yeah I guess... I saw "Mana Node" and my mind inserted the word "Raw" in front of it >.<
     
  5. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    The important part of the spell is that their version does not change animal resources into other animals, but into grains. ;)

    That said: Why do they need a new mana type, exactly? Why not just a spell that requires both Fire and Creation mana?
     
  6. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    I need it because I want it to give a completely separate affinity to units.

    Standard mele units get +1 fire affinity but the adept spell gives units +1 Blaze affinity.

    Also, since blaze is not listed in any resistance tables it essential does flat damage to units.

    This all is meant to motivate the race to expand in order to grab as much mana as they can.


    Furthermore since my race does not get bonuses to they will instead get an increased allowance for plant resources and their corporation will give a +1 from Creation Mana.

    So a main strategy will be juggling between a balanced 1-1 mix of fire and creation for blaze or going for a more creation mix for extra .

    Also, for the main leader I am going with Charismatic and Agnostic but since they will need expansion should I go for Organized or Expansionist?
     
  7. cvx

    cvx Warlord

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    The fire affinity on melee units .. its like dtesh with their affinity to death im always finding myself with 12 strength warriors that destroy all and everything. Could be overpowered.

    Making plants out of animals seems funny :)
     
  8. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Just from a strategy point of wiev... how to hell do you get 12 death nodes as D'tesh?
     
  9. cvx

    cvx Warlord

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    Well after I destroyed the third civ i normally have quite alot .. besides the other death mana sources and warriors starting at 1 strength. And maybe it wasnt 12 but 10. Doesn't change the point that i feel playing dtesh is pretty easy cause of their possibility to get that much strength.
     
  10. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    In a standard sized map the 3rd kill is something like 50% of the people dead?
     
  11. cvx

    cvx Warlord

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    I play with 9 civs on standard map size. But I don't see how this is important at all.
     
  12. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Well I am unsure if it will be too much since I plan for them to have the same base strength as normal units.

    But since you will need to have at least 50% of your mana nodes into creation for the you won't be able to have that many fire nodes.
     
  13. hbar

    hbar Constant

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    Yeah, I'd worry about them being overpowered from the start. Affinity is a dangerous thing, and giving adepts the ability to add affinity to the stack is begging for balance issues.

    Played correctly, exactly half of your mana will be creation and half will be fire. Since you get a free blaze mana for each fire/creation pair, your melee units will have +1 :strength: for each mana you have (1/2 for fire, 1/2 for blaze). This is no different then D'tesh, but they are seriously nerfed in base strength to compensate.

    Oh, and I've gotten 12 death mana plenty of times as the Sheaim, although I've never played D'tesh.
     
  14. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    In that case I will probably decrese their base strenth.
    Althou that does make them weak in the early game. Playing as D'tesh I found it almost imposible to defend my workers...
     
  15. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Honesstly, it is still not necessary and is likely OP. :p

    What *I* would do if I wanted affinity for a hybrid mana would be similar to the method used for the Mechanos. Will break down the method here.

    Basically, you have two promotions and a bit of python. The first promotion is visible, and actually causes the code to trigger. The second promotion is granted for each mana, and stacks. The python is what actually grants/removes the stack promotion.

    Spoiler Trigger Promotion :

    Alright, this is the one that you'd give to the units. It's a visible promotion, nonstackable, and calls a pyperturn function. Otherwise, give it all the effects that the affinity promotion will have.

    You cannot combine the two promotions here; If you do, and lose all of the mana somehow, you will lose the pyperturn call and will lose the affinity forever. Even if you regain the mana.

    Code:
    <PromotionInfo>        <!-- Mech Affinity  Trigger -->
         <Type>PROMOTION_MECHANOS_AFFINITY_ENABLER</Type>
         <Description>Mechanos Affinity</Description>
         <Help></Help>
         <iAirCombat>1</iAirCombat>
         <iAirCombatLimitBoost>10</iAirCombatLimitBoost>
         <iAsset>5</iAsset>
         <PrereqCivilizations>
              <PrereqCivilization>CIVILIZATION_MECHANOS</PrereqCivilization>
         </PrereqCivilizations>
         <UnitCombats>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_SIEGE</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ADEPT</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_DISCIPLE</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MELEE</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MOUNTED</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
             <UnitCombat>
                  <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_RECON</UnitCombatType>
                 <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
             </UnitCombat>
         </UnitCombats>
          <Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Golem.dds</Button>
         <iMinLevel>-1</iMinLevel>
         <PyPerTurn>effectMechanosAffinity(pCaster)</PyPerTurn>
     </PromotionInfo>
     



    Spoiler Stack Promotion :

    Notice the bStackEffect tag; It means you can take the promotion infinitely. Not widely used, but useful nonetheless for things like this.

    This one is not visible, because I didn't want two promos with the same effects shown and had to have two. Reasons in the spoiler above. This one does NOT have a pyperturn, but is otherwise identical to the first.

    Code:
    <PromotionInfo>        <!-- Mech Affinity -->
        <Type>PROMOTION_MECHANOS_AFFINITY</Type>
        <Description>Mechanos Affinity</Description>
        <Help></Help>
        <bEffectProm>1</bEffectProm>
        <bStackEffect>1</bStackEffect>
        <iAirCombat>1</iAirCombat>
        <iAirCombatLimitBoost>10</iAirCombatLimitBoost>
        <iAsset>5</iAsset>
        <PrereqCivilizations>
            <PrereqCivilization>CIVILIZATION_MECHANOS</PrereqCivilization>
        </PrereqCivilizations>
        <UnitCombats>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_SIEGE</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ADEPT</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_DISCIPLE</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MELEE</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MOUNTED</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
            <UnitCombat>
                <UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_RECON</UnitCombatType>
                <bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
            </UnitCombat>
        </UnitCombats>
        <Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Golem.dds</Button>
        <iMinLevel>-1</iMinLevel>
    </PromotionInfo>



    Spoiler Python :

    Basically, all this does is check how many of the Affinity promotions (the stackable one) the unit has, removes them up to that amount, and then reads however many you have the mana for. Guarantees the proper amount of affinity strength.

    All you'd really need to change is the name of the function (obviously), the iMechanosAffinity variable, and the iRefinedNum.

    Code:
    def effectMechanosAffinity(pCaster):
        iMechanosAffinity = gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_MECHANOS_AFFINITY')
        pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(pCaster.getOwner())
        iRefinedNum = pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForString('BONUS_REFINED_MANA')) - 1
    
        for i in xrange(pCaster.countHasPromotion(iMechanosAffinity)):
            pCaster.setHasPromotion(iMechanosAffinity, False)
        
        for i in xrange(iRefinedNum):
            pCaster.setHasPromotion(iMechanosAffinity, True)
    
    To get the number you'd be using, you'd have to figure out a way to make sure you have a 1:1 relationship between the manas... Off the top of my head, something like this.

    Code:
    iNumFire = pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForString('BONUS_MANA_FIRE'))
    iNumCreation = pPlayer.getNumAvailableBonuses(gc.getInfoTypeForString('BONUS_MANA_CREATION'))
    
    if iNumFire <= iNumCreation:
        iNumBlaze = iNumFire
    else:
        iNumBlaze = iNumCreation
    Basically, if you have less Fire than Creation, or the same amount, use the amount of fire mana. Otherwise, you automatically have less Creation so use that. Either way, you'd use the lowest mana.



    Hopefully that was understandable. ;)

    The biggest upside to this system isn't the fact that you don't need a new mana, but the fact that you can control exactly what the benefits are. Can have 10% strength instead of a full strength, for one thing. ;)

    To me, their biggest nerf is the lack of xp gain. Not reduced strength.
     
  16. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    For the whole ratio thing I will just be adding a third resource so I won't have to calculate anything. I've got that part covered.

    But honestly I will probably remove the Fire Affinity from mele units and instead go for no affinity and no metal weapons. That way the adept spell will be of more use.


    Also, since they don't really have any point in adding any special effects like ranged attacks or + 10% damage since those are just... well UP in the early game.
    My main problem is having something that is not OP in the late game while still not being as useless as the D'tesh warriors in the early game.

    I want to provide a heavy motivation for the player to carry an adept with each stack.


    Also, have I mentioned that the mele line are not living units so the standard spells like haste won't work on them and that mages are limited to only Fire, Creation and Blaze?
     
  17. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Like I said, I just don't like the idea of adding a new resource when it's not needed. Your civ though. :p


    One thing you could do with the stackable promotions like I explained would be for a staggered effect... Could grant 1 strength with 1 of the mana, add another with 3, and so on. Encourages you to accumulate it, without it being runaway.

    The biggest thing to remember here is that any affinity you use is available on essentially ALL of their units... That's the issue with the Mechanos atm.


    You hadn't mentioned that they were not alive, but the rest yes. ;)

    I'm assuming this is the civ you mentioned in the lore subforum?
     
  18. hbar

    hbar Constant

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    Maybe have fire give +0.5 affinity and blaze give +1 first strike chance affinity?
     
  19. Swinkscalibur

    Swinkscalibur Prince

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    Although I personally prefer the mechanos affinity system to the addition of another mana (mostly since mana is tied to lore and balanced into four schools of five types) there is one other benefit to creating a new bonus and that is being able to easily add another unique passive effect which can stack with the new bonus. This is a lot easier than somehow creating a passive effect that is initiated with every pair of fire/creation mana and then stacked.

    Personally I wouldn't call the new bonus a new type of mana. In the same way refined mana is a type of synthetic bonus not a part of the true natural manas, perhaps call the new bonus something like "Synthetic Blazite" or "Blaze Crystals." I suppose worst case you can still call it blaze mana, but in the lore I would explain it as some sort of synthetic refinement of the two sources of mana.
     
  20. Swinkscalibur

    Swinkscalibur Prince

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    I believe the only way currently to give a unit 0.5 affinity is to do as Valk suggested and stagger the effect on a mechanos type affinity system. not truly 0.5 affinity though as you would only gain +1 strength for every other bonus owned.

    But oh what a world it would be if we could have decimal affinities. (even if it was just halfs)
     

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