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[BTS] My First Emperor Shadow Game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by CGQ, Sep 11, 2019 at 9:45 PM.

  1. CGQ

    CGQ Chieftain

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    After beating my first Monarch game, I want to learn and improve my CIV IV BTS game as much as possible!:)

    Spoiler 4000 BC :


    Settings:
    - Emperor
    - Continents
    - Standard Speed
    - Temperate Climate
    - Normal Speed
    - No huts/random events
    - Randomize leader

    My leader the game picked is Julius Caesar.

    Here's the start:



    I was thinking settling 1 NE for corn and marble in first ring since I can research agriculture first and the worker can improve it first plus the masonry. Settling in placed for the sheep might be better if I can research AH and have the worker ready by time I get AH. Plus there's also the trade bonus for being by a river. What do you guys think?

    Could this be a good game for The Oracle? I have marble so close to me plus trees, and I could go straight for Masory but then again I don't start with Mysticism. I have a lot to learn! :crazyeye:

    All advice is appreciated!

     

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  2. floydmcw

    floydmcw Chieftain

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    Thank you for posting a shadow game!

    Spoiler 4000 BC :

    First ring/second ring is irrelevant for your capital, which gets free culture and will expand its borders on Turn 5.
     
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Yep capital gets culture. Your new cities don't. Always move the warrior before deciding where to settle. Fog gazing there appears to be a plains to the west which could have a resource? Not opened save!

    Early techs needed are agriculture and BW. Do you really want AH?
     
  4. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Some info on settling and early decisions can be found in my beginner help thread.

    Overall the only possibly interesting settler move would be 1e, for an extra city tile hammer.
    But you should move your warrior first (1se looks best), and find out how tiles look over there.

    If nothing i would suggest SIP..looks like you would lose most or all hills and some forests, so moving is questionable without gaining something more than 1h.

    Gumbo already mentioned Agri and BW, especially with IMP (30h / settler chop) you should value BW much higher than AH for 1 sheep.
    If you have to wait for BW after improving corn, you could farm sheep :)
    Only 1:food: weaker than a pasture, and this highlights why AH is much weaker than BW here.

    Oracle with no mysticism starters = an overall weak play, marble is not an important factor.
    You could still think about it later, but neither masonry or Reli lines have any priority early with this start.
     
  5. as2w

    as2w Chieftain

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    It appears that there is coast line 2E of settler. I'm inclined to think that settling 1E for the hammer won't be that helpful if you have coast 2 tiles away. It is possible that it is an oasis. And Fippy's suggestion to move warrior 1SE will reveal whether it is ocean or an oasis.
     
  6. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Leader is not Julius, it's Augustus. :)

    Having marble in capital BFC is not worth much, so your decision on where to settle should be based mostly on food. For me, either SIP or 1E for plains hill bonus. True, there seems to be coast 2E so I'd scout that with a warrior and probably SIP. There is a bare hill 2W1S of settler. You can see from the softwood tree graphics that you are either very south or very north, and I'm not sure if gold can spawn at this latitude. Might be silver though, or metal.

    Agreed on agri-BW being the most likely tech path.
     
  7. CGQ

    CGQ Chieftain

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    Here's my first update:

    Spoiler Played to Turn 18 :


    Sent my warrior east and then west. I meet Saladin at Turn 7:


    He converts to Hinduism at Turn 13:


    My first build was worker to improve the corn, and then a warrior to grow the city a bit. I went Agriculture then Bronze Working to later chop for the settler. I sent my warrior further west to meet more potential neighbors and saw Saladin's borders. Now the question is...

    ...To steal or not to steal that worker?


    State of the empire at 3280 BC:


    I'm debating it since he's pretty far so he can't do much but then again, that worker would have a long trek back (by time he gets back he could improve my second city?) but either way, not too crazy about the desert in the north (possible iron?), but there you have it, seems like okay land, lots of calendar resources, no fish anywhere so far, though maybe possibly east of the silk there might be, I'll have to send my 2nd warrior eastwards and go north up the east coast.
    I'm going to go for animal husbandry after I get bronze working.
     

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  8. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I would say stealing is good, looks like weak land around you so Sally might contest with you for the only good spot between.
    By going Hindu he researched something that cannot help with improving his land (already building just roads), or getting more dangerous units,
    and you can slow him down even more by taking the worker :)

    Also while you have to guard him home slowly, he will have much to do with so many forests.
    Good chance you have copper around imo, with resis being so spare..there has to be something else.
    So you probably can get Axes against him as well.
    (if you see copper, wheel before AH..overall it's not very clear with AH still anyways)
     
  9. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    With imperialist a second worker will be very useful. You need to explore more around your capital.

    So far you only have 1 city spot. Albeit that spot is still covered in unexplored tiles. You lack AH and hunting to make those 2 resources work.

    So tech after BW? AH? TW to pottery? My gut would be Ah if you want the pig site. Unless you find a better site.

    Don't fall in the trap of rushing towards preatorians. IW can likely be traded for.
     
  10. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Longtime lurker, first time poster! Haven't played this game in a while, but looking forward to getting back into it. I'll shadow along and post an update later today.
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Watch out for bears coming from the S as you move that worker back with warrior.

    Lands a little sketchy here, but still more scouting to do. I think I'd put second city 1S of Pigs to save river tiles for cottages.

    I thought settling Rome on PH would be the right move here, but maybe it will work out best if there is seafood out there.
     
  12. CGQ

    CGQ Chieftain

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    Spoiler On to Turn 31 :


    I went ahead and declared on Sally to take his worker. As I escorted the worker back, Bronze Working came in and revealed copper, just outside my capital!

    Sally's scout is being a pain and I couldn't send my warriors to explore since they'd leave my city undefended (not taking a 70% chance if I attack it with my warrior either lol) but at least he can't take my workers :)

    I chopped the settler and took a slight risk to send my worker south:

    My first thought was to settle by the copper to mount an Axe rush (though Sally's kinda far honestly) but the worker revealed no seafood, only a whale :(

    I'm going to switch to slavery as I move my settler 1S below the pigs to settle him. I think now I should've gone for AH instead of WH first.

    ...And I just noticed:


    Sally's got copper in his BFC :(

     

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  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Scouting with your worker = very bad.. That was unnecessary and is lost worker turns chopping or improving.

    Scouts cannot take cities or attack in any way.

    You can hover over that copper to see if it is improved or not...getting peace with Sal is a priority now. Killing that scout would likely have allowed peace.

    That first warrior should have stayed out near the pigs city to spawnbust. Warrior in Rome should not be in Rome but scouting S or E...be interested to see if food W of that PH. otherwise copper city could simply go 1E of copper and use sheep.

    Why is your settler in Rome?
     
  14. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    When was settler built? Last turn?

    I would be chopping the grassland river tiles first. Agree on worker. Should be chopping and not scouting. Maybe worker was checking for food near copper?

    Sal will take peace now. Yeah don't leave the Ai at war.

    I think with 9-10 axes Sal could fall as long as capital is not on a hill.

    Where to build city 2? At present I don't see fur being worked for a while. 1S of pigs saves that grassland river tile with option to work deer later on. You gain 1 grassland to the east too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 4:49 PM
  15. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Yup makes sense, with easily built Imp settlers it's worth taking a 6 yield tile like copper if very close.
    Will get an instant trade route too :)

    Meanwhile you can prepare for pigs city by building roads and getting those techs.
     
  16. CGQ

    CGQ Chieftain

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    Spoiler Played to Turn 50 :


    The settler was built the last turn. I had him go 1S under the pigs, and had my workers build roads while they waited for AH. Meanwhile, I made peace with Sally on T23 and sent one of my warriors north up the west coast. Lo and behold there is fish!



    Here's what warrior found up north:


    Here's the empire at T50:

     

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  17. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Few comments:

    First, I might have replayed a few turns from your last turnset since you made some pretty bad mistakes, like scouting with the worker and leaving the settler in Rome. Not to mention the warriors.

    Warriors are still in your cities instead of scouting or spawnbusting

    Way too many unnecessary roads...other than maybe a city connection you do not need to hook up resources. I count at least 5 roads that are not needed. That is at least 10 worker turns not doing the right thing (more really for any forest or hill you stepped on).

    priority: food>chopping>trade routes>chopping>more chopping>maybe a mine

    sheep still unimproved. copper not urgent unless rushing

    Just to be clear ..for success..every turn matters early

    Why is Rome Size 2?

    I think you are playing a bit fast as well and not really discussing the feedback or absorbing it before playing on. It's really up to you, of course, but it would be my recommendation to slow it down a bit and discuss.

    Warrior in N really too far away. Early priority is scouting the immediate area around you cap and then spawnbusting. You left a lot of nearby land fogged while the warrior is just trudging through jungle waiting asking to get killed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 6:26 PM
  18. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Something to consider is that barbs are more active on Emperor and you've only met one AI. hopefully you're on a small continent but getting copper and chopping axes might be a good idea
     
  19. Simple Machine

    Simple Machine Chieftain

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    Played to T60:
    Spoiler :

    T60_1.PNG
    SIP then went AG --> BW. After discovering copper to the south teched Wheel and 2-pop whipped settler at size 4. City 2 settled 1E of copper.
    Then, teched AH --> Pottery and currently 5 turns away from Writing. 2-pop whipped another settler to settle Cumae.
    Currently at 3 workers and 4 warriors, also have an almost-finished axe in Rome's queue whenever needed and another worker about to come out of Cumae.

    Was a bit stupid with my warriors in the beginning and lost one to a bear, but now seem to have fogbusting under control. Also built a couple work boats to explore up and down the coast. Minimal barb problems right now.

    Explored the southern tundra - there are a few nice coastal locations:
    T60_2.PNG

    The land to the immediate north looks a bit barren, although there are two good sites to the east on the coast:
    T60_3.PNG

    In short CGQ, nicely done getting away with that worker steal! That's not something I thought about doing. But I agree with lymond about the unnecessary roads - some of them could have been substituted for a more useful plains mine or more chops.

    I haven't explored much of the continent so far - I hope to accomplish that with my workboats over the next 20-30 turns.

    Maybe it's smart to axe rush Saladin or beeline for IW + Praets? Also could just settle more cities and develop cottages; maybe attack with construction or engineering later.


     

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  20. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Barracks will be useful but getting 3rd city was more important.Your 3rd city by copper should of been built by T50. (Use your imperialist traits!) You will have to manage gold/science/commerce tiles. Way too many roads for T50. I did a quick play through to turn 50 and I had only built 3-4 roads. I built 2-3 more to connect 3rd city to copper. Using a 3rd worker from the pig city. As Lymond suggests early roads are never really worth it unless you need to hook up a resource for a rush,

    You will likely want a 3rd worker at some point. That 3rd city will build 3-4+ axes when you start chopping heavily.
    Your capital needs to reach size 4 with under 5 hammers in axe for first whip.

    Don't build too many warriors here. They will be a drain on gold later.

    The copper city could get an exploring workboat out if you are waiting for the wheel.

    I think I would replay turns here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 2:05 AM

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