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My first monarch game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by ewht91, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. ewht91

    ewht91 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
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    Ok so after winning a couple of games at noble and prince relatively easily, and getting into a winning position a few times before getting bored, I've decided to step up and play my first game at Monarch, and post my first shadow game to hopefully pick up some tips about playing at this level from this fantastic community.

    So without further ado, this is the leader the random select brought up.


    Hmmm, FDR is not a leader who I have much experience with. He's industrious and organized. Industrious is useful for building wonders, which is not something I usually prioritize. Organized keeps costs down and gives us cheaper factories, courthouses, and lighthouses, which are pretty useful buildings in most cities. America starts with
    agriculture and fishing. The UU and UB will probably both come in too late to have much impact on the game, which I don't mind too much, as I sometimes feel under pressure to make the most of an early UU rather than concentrate on setting my empire up.

    The start:


    Pretty nice start for Roosevelt with the stone in the north, I'm tempted to move 1N, giving up the riverside city in favour of getting that stone hooked up and going for some early wonders, depends what the warrior turns up with his first move. 2 food resources are always nice, and there looks to be a fair amount of river nearby, so I'm pretty happy with this start.

    Finally, here are the options:

    Using the BAT mod.

    I will be interested to see what the consensus on this start is.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Why not go I NE instead of 1 N? One loss of a coastal tile is not that bad.

    I would consider building the GLH with this start by SIP and founding another city to work/connect the stone.
     
  3. monkeycid

    monkeycid Chieftain

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    Htadus: You suggest SIP (and coastal) for a GLH bid, which sounds good - though I could see merit in 1N but still building another city for the stone.

    1NE is decent but loses coastal attribute, but does make the pigs easy to share for another city. How important is the extra traderoute from coastal in the capital? Anyone care to chime in?

    One might even go 1S and kill the hill but enable another. Then it's possible to build the GLH city 1N of the pigs and work pigs/stone/potential other stuff - but I'm not too sure 'bout the prudence in such a decision.
     
  4. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    Location:
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    If going NE, wouldn't it be better to go 2N1E, which would avoid having any coastal tiles in the BFC and then maximize this city's potential in the long run. I count 8 riverside grassland cottages minimum in that location, so a pretty solid bureau cap.

    However, one of roosevelt's biggest advantages is he is the fastest civ to get to the GLH, IIRC, so 1N is probably ok too. Seems worth losing a turn to claim the stone. If you stay coastal, scout the coastline quickly to make sure GLH is worth it...
     
  5. Mysterious Dr.X

    Mysterious Dr.X Chieftain

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    Location:
    caput mundi
    I'd go for 1NE, too. All the resourcen in the BFC and only one coastal tile, but I'm still on prince, so don't give my words too much weight :blush:.
     
  6. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    1NE looks like a good option as it grabs all resources (but loses coastal, which may be a good thing actually). Depends on what is to the south though. First thing I'd do is move the warrior 1S or (probably) 1SE to reveal more of the land. Then decide.

    1NE looks like a good Buro capital though, with many rivered grassland tiles.
     
  7. Choggy

    Choggy Prince

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    Id go 1N1NE and bring those river tiles into play and send my warrior north to see what's at the end of the river. Forests also mean Oracle chopping.
     
  8. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Marginal on this type of map. I have limited experience in the map type and looked at couple just now. I no longer think it is worth it. Better off capturing it later.

    2N1E would make a better site as noted by michmbk as long as you do not mind a mntn in the BFC. 9 river tiles and save forest,

    1N1E would have 8 river tiles, semi useful 1food coast and kills a forest.

    2N1E seem better.
     
  9. kingbeef

    kingbeef Chieftain

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    Some of the land further north looks bad and since its "big and small" a navy could be useful. Settle in place and re-locate the capitol to the east later on for all the riverside tiles.

    Animal Husbandry, Mining and Bronze working look safe bets for starting techs.
     
  10. cas

    cas Emperor

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    Hmmm. I'd like to shadow this but don't have the BAT mod installed and really don't want to install any mods other than BUFFY for GOTM.

    Would someone with the BAT mod installed be so kind as to post a wb/zipped file or the initial save with no mod ? :please:

    My thoughts on the start are warrior 1SE (maybe 1S hill would reveal more) and assuming nothing spectacular, settler to the plains hill on t0 and then settle 2N1E of current start position on t1.

    cas
     
  11. ewht91

    ewht91 Chieftain

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    Many thanks for all the replies so far. I'm sorry about the mod situation, I'd go the WB route myself if I could but I'm afraid it could rather ruin the rest of the game, hopefully some kind hearted soul will provide a save that is accessible to more people.

    Spoiler :
    So, the general consensus was that either 1NE or 2N1E was the way to go. I moved the Warrior 1SE but didn't find anything amazing, some plains cows in the distance being the highlight. Moving the Settler to the plains hills turned up some spices though, so on T1 I went ahead and settled 2N1E of my original start location. First build was a worker, naturally, and I'm going AH, Mining, BW tech-wise to start with. Mansa came from the South on Turn 12, which beats my last couple of games where I was stuck with Monty on a crappy little continent. Hinduism and Buddhism were founded almost simultaneously, and AH did not reveal any horses. This is the overall situation on Turn 16 (i.e. just after the worker was built):

    As you can see, its a really nice start with 2 gold nearby and some ivory too, with the food resources also quite close. Lots of happiness resources too such as wine and gems in the north.
    A little closer:


    Shows us some FP and that the river is quite long.
    I'm open to suggestions as to where the first few cities should be placed, and also what to tech after bronze working. I'm thinking pottery so I can get a few cottages going in Washington, but if I want wonders then I'd be better off taking a different path surely? The warrior is currently moving West from his current poition to find out what lurks to the North of Washington, and another Warrior is on the way to help with scouting to the south.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    I think both your planned cities are good. All have their resources in inner ring, and you'll block off Mansa in his tundraland after your borders pop. I might even consider settling 2 1W, as it'd block him off without any monuments needed, just 2nd border pop in capital would do it.
     
  13. Choggy

    Choggy Prince

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    I like site 1 - early Elephant and the Gold for the +2 happy and commerce boost. Site 2 is ok but will need a lighthouse to grow so you'll need to tech or trade sailing for it at some point.

    There is another option...settle on the riverside gold 1E of site 1 and border pop the wheat, pig elephant and other gold. You'd need Mysticism to chop a monument, but if you plan on building Oracle it's a pre-req anyway. It's a bit of a resource-grab city but with those riverside plain tiles it will have have decent production and early commerce from the gold tiles and removes the need to settle site 2.
     
  14. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    Tech: BW for all its uses.
    City 1: Absoltely and asap to get things started.
    City 2. Too far too early. Wait until you know more of the land. There may be better locatons to south perhaps with horses.

    Try to locate Mansa's capital as a priority. That way you can guess where he may settle his city. Abviously we do not kill Mansa but contain him instead for trades.
     
  15. Jex

    Jex Drafted Rifles Are OP

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    I'd go Masonry->BW->Mysticism->Animal Husbandry. Pick up the Great Wall after settling your second city, then put out workers and settlers while waiting for Mysticism. Grab Stonehenge if you can, and then maybe pick up the Pyramids after picking up another city or two. Starting with Stone means you can usually snag those wonders even on Emperor and Immortal, and you're industrious to boot. The Great Wall is a must- it should make it possible to expand with only a couple of warriors, since you only need to worry about barbs when escorting settlers. Stonehenge would come after cranking a settler or two, and would be helpful for quick border props to block the AI. Pyramids are optional and may not be worth sacrificing the REXing rate for, but they would be useful for the early happiness and research boost from Representation. Whether you should grab the Pyramids, and whether you should prioritize settlers over workers depends on how close the AI is.
     
  16. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    It's monarch... that site wouldn't be too far even on immortal, and with pigs and gold it will easily pay for itself. Confining Mansa to tundra hell makes it absolutely worth it.
     
  17. Jex

    Jex Drafted Rifles Are OP

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    ^^Yeah, didn't notice Mansa was down there. Blocking him off by settling cities 1 and 2 is a must.
     
  18. Htadus

    Htadus A and L's dad

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    It has nothing to do with the distance maintanance and the city paying off itself. It has much to do with claiming another potential resource with the 2nd settler and yes also minimizing the maintanance as a byproduct if the third city is near by. I was specific about waiting untill knowing th eland before deciding where to plant the 3rd city. Also as you said, this is Monarch and there is no hurry to block off Mansa since he is not Joao/shaka.

    Actually if it were immortal, I would say claim the site with both golds in the BFC. That is 1NE of proposed Site 1. it will also get a FP in the process. This is since AI will expand faster and I want to make sure that every city will get me some thing very useful. Here, I will monopolize the gold market. (Assuming mansa has none) That way I will have that second gold for a trade. Again my third city will look for those elusive horse or copper.

    If you really want to use Mansa, then leave him a city site near the capital and use the distance bonus to steal techs from him cheaply from that city.

    So let me say again, wait till you know more. For all we know mansa's capital is directly south of Washington.

    @ OP
    Just a side note, GW is usefull to keep those pesky barbs out but I would consider having the 250 hammer Mids more useful than both GW and SH combined. Just thinking out loud.
     
  19. ewht91

    ewht91 Chieftain

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    Well I've reached turn 100 now, and this game has played out pretty much as expected.

    Spoiler :
    I found that Mansa was to the South East rather than directly South, so his terrain isn't terrible, but I'm pretty sure he's hemmed in now. I've met all but one of my rivals, and they are all very far away. Sitting Bull is the closest neighbour, followed by Justinian. I have no idea where Pacal is and I literally just met Shaka. Wonder wise, I didn't bother going for the Oracle, because I didn't have marble and it was along the tech path I rarely bother with, I built the GW because the Barbs popped up really quick and were moving towards my cities, which had really weak defence as I hadn't settled any copper or horses quick enough, but luckily I still got the Mids to run representation. I didn't have tie for SH as those wonders were more critical. TGL is Malian so I can take it if I want it really. I'm lacking in power as I was more bothered about blocking Mansa off and working all my tiles, but I'm starting to rectify that now.

    This shows how far Justinian and Sitting Bull are. This map is quite weird, seems like most of us are on one continent. No doubt there will be some poor sap stuck on his own somewhere.

    No-mans land between me and the other leaders, I doubt I'll get to settle it, depends how much other land they have to settle.

    These are a couple of potential city sites to the north, 4 is just a backfill city to pick up the extra ivory and spice. I was also thinking of a city 1SE of the copper instead of 3 but I don't really know, that's why I'm on here lol. Note that the numbers don't necessarily correspond to settling order, I just wanted to give them labels.

    And finally, this is the terrain to the South and the Mansa situation, as you can see he's pretty much bottled up. City 5 is meh but it grabs to happiness resources, but its definitely a backfill city.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    I'd move 6 1E and steal the pig from capital, unless scouting on the iron reveals seafood to the west of it.

    I'd settle a city on the tile between the corn and the dye in the north, it's great land post IW and blocks off the north, along with city on your site 1.

    I'd also probably reconfigure 3 and 4 into three cities - SW of rice, SW of horse and either SE or 2E of your 4, depending on whether there's seafood 5E 1N of it.

    You've got a ton of great land to grab and peaceful neighbors. Hopefully Just spreads Buddhism to you and SB, and maybe even Mansa, that'd make diplo absolute breeze.
     

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