My First Warlord Game

[Aceman101]

This is my first warlord game and I might need a little help. I have chosen the Iroqouis and I am second on the scoreboard (So far so good) but Egypt has ten more points than me. Currently I'm at war with the Aztecs, they came in my territory and I told them to move their troops away or declare, they declared. And England and America are my allies. First of all my gold isn't going to good. Although I have 700 or so gold I'm in a golden age and I get 0 gpt. And when the golden age expires it will drop down to about -20 gpt. I know I have to many units but i'm on a mission to destroy the evil aztecs . So i'll need as much troops as possible. But my plan is i'll build wealth in all the cities that produce less than 3 shields per turn (I have plenty of them). And with the rest i'll just build military or improvements. And i'll do that untill i get wall street. Btw I'm currently in monarchy because there's no war weariness and it's an easy to manage government. Here is the savegame... And any suggestions would be greatly appreciated .

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/107056/Iroquois_Warlords_Level_.SAV

 

[vmxa]

Well I would first stop any further build of troops in places that do not have a barracks. They are not worth the expense.

No more defenders anyplace, you do not need them at warlord. Attackers only and disband units that are not at least being used for MP duty, IF they are not vets.

Look hard at non vets to disband, if they are not going on attack or in a front line town. No barracks builds in those small towns, especially if they are not growing.

Those can make trebs or what ever or workers and if need be wealth.
Watch what you build and where. A lib in oka, that is size 2 and not growing makes me want to pull my hair out. What is that doing for you, other than using up shields and adding to your expense.

I would not build LB, unless I had nothing else, but MW's are better, so no more long bows please.

Why build galleys? You do not need them now and do not want to pay for maint or upgrades later, stop them now.

Get a few markets up in the bigger towns.

You are at war, but you have so many units sitting in cities that do not need to be defended. Get them into the action.

Do not wage war like the AI. That is sending over units a few at a time. Do not expose units to being executed on counter. This can be avoided, IF you bring numbers.

Get more bombardment units and use them.

Iroq's are so strong they should just roll over the AI at Warlord during the AA, build up MW's and hurt someone.

 

[vmxa]

I forgot about the workers. I am sure you do not have enough, but what I wanted to point out is how much I dislike seeing lone workers spread all over the place. How I really hate seeing workers in mountiains at this stage of the game, unless you have everything else done.

Those mountain tiles can wait, many of them look like they will never need to be worked.

You need to have more of the workers in the core at this stage. You are in a GA and have dam few mines. This is because of the lack of workers and their not being in the towns that could make the most of them improving tiles.

PS:

look at all the bonus grass that is not mined. I see wheat in core towns not irrigated, these things hurt your production and growth. Getting water to the wheat in the cap and the other town early in the game would let you put out settlers faster.

 

[Aceman101]

Well I would first stop any further build of troops in places that do not have a barracks. They are not worth the expense.

Got It .

No more defenders anyplace, you do not need them at warlord. Attackers only and disband units that are not at least being used for MP duty, IF they are not vets.

No defenders??? They are essential to defend my cities.

Look hard at non vets to disband, if they are not going on attack or in a front line town. No barracks builds in those small towns, especially if they are not growing.

OK, no barracks in small towns, and more in bigger towns .

Watch what you build and where. A lib in oka, that is size 2 and not growing makes me want to pull my hair out. What is that doing for you, other than using up shields and adding to your expense.

Well, I guess your right, but I just thought it makes science go faster. But now I have leaned not to build libraries in small towns that arn't productive. But i'll still build libraries in small towns that are producing LOT'S OF commerce . Oh, and I hope I didn't make you pull to much of your hair out .

I would not build LB, unless I had nothing else, but MW's are better, so no more long bows please.

I know I shouldn't be building LB's but i only built them in small towns that will take forever to build Cavs.

Why build galleys? You do not need them now and do not want to pay for maint or upgrades later, stop them now.

I wasn't building galleys they were just obsolete. I was upgrading them one by one.

Get a few markets up in the bigger towns.

Yeah, what I'm gonna do is build five markets (In large towns) and then build banks in those same towns (you need to build markets before you can build banks). Then after that i'll build a wall street in my most productive city. So that should give me 50 more gpt.

You are at war, but you have so many units sitting in cities that do not need to be defended. Get them into the action.

The war isn't turning out to good. I didn't conquer too much.

Do not wage war like the AI. That is sending over units a few at a time. Do not expose units to being executed on counter. This can be avoided, IF you bring numbers.

I have made the BIGGEST mistake by doing this. I am now having a war and I lost about half of my military sending the troops out in small fleets. I will definetly change the way I send my troops out. I'll send them out in large fleets. Because I have to go across the water to get to Egypt. I'm now at war with them, I'll tell you more about it when I upload the new savegame.

Get more bombardment units and use them.

Will do .

Iroq's are so strong they should just roll over the AI at Warlord during the AA, build up MW's and hurt someone.

From now on, no more pointless wars, I'm gonna plan a strategy and attack the enemy in LARGE fleets.

Thank you vmxa for giving up your time and looking at my savegame. I appreciate this .

 

[Aceman101]

I forgot about the workers. I am sure you do not have enough, but what I wanted to point out is how much I dislike seeing lone workers spread all over the place. How I really hate seeing workers in mountiains at this stage of the game, unless you have everything else done.

OK, I'll send my workers out in big groups and I won't build roads or mines on mountains unless everything is finished.

Those mountain tiles can wait, many of them look like they will never need to be worked.

Like I said i'll do them when everything is finished.

You need to have more of the workers in the core at this stage. You are in a GA and have dam few mines. This is because of the lack of workers and their not being in the towns that could make the most of them improving tiles.

OK, more workers more mines .

PS:

look at all the bonus grass that is not mined. I see wheat in core towns not irrigated, these things hurt your production and growth. Getting water to the wheat in the cap and the other town early in the game would let you put out settlers faster.

I'll fix all of that up .

Once again thanks for looking at my savegame .

 

[Aceman101]

My update is coming soon. Oh and btw I havn't done the things you told me to do in my update, because I played it yesterday and today I looked and saw the new post. But after I post this update I'll do the things that you suggested.

 

[gmaharriet]

No defenders??? They are essential to defend my cities.

You've probably heard the expression, "The best defense is a good offense.", right? You don't want to just huddle in your towns waiting to be attacked, which is what defensive units are mostly good for. When you see the enemy coming, you want to attack him if possible before he can reach your town(s). So build (mostly) units that are good at attacking like swords, horsemen, Mounted Warriors. Attack on YOUR turn, not waiting for the enemy to attack.

Defensive units like spears and pikes are rarely needed, and when you DO build them, they are usually to go along with your stack of doom for protecting your artillery-type units (cats, trebs, cannons, etc.)

Well, I guess your right, but I just thought it makes science go faster. But now I have leaned not to build libraries in small towns that arn't productive. But i'll still build libraries in small towns that are producing LOT'S OF commerce .

Libraries increase your research speed as a percent (50%) of how much gold you are already spending on research. If your research slider is set to zero, adding another 50% of nothing won't do anything. A good rule of thumb that I was taught is to go to your City View and, if a net 10 gold per turn (at least) is going to research, it's worthwhile to build a lib.

what I'm gonna do is build five markets (In large towns) and then build banks in those same towns (you need to build markets before you can build banks). Then after that i'll build a wall street in my most productive city. So that should give me 50 more gpt.

Markets work a lot like libraries, except that they increase the net gold going into your treasury as taxes by 50%. Banks will add another 50%, BUT if you are putting most of your gold into research, not much will go to taxes. Again, 50% of nothing is still nothing.

Markets, however, do have an effect on happiness if you have 3 or more different luxes hooked up. So it may be worthwhile to have a market in your large towns even with most of your gold going to research, but banks don't help with happiness.

Good luck!!!

 

[Mirc]

They are not essential. I never use defenses. Only in border cities, in times of war, if I'm in the Industrial age and can transport them with rails everywhere. In your core, they are one of the most useless things you might build.

 

[vmxa]

It is quite possible to not make a single spear at Monarch or lower and have no problems. I learned from Aeson. You are not likely to be attacked at those levels until much later.

Then you can make better defenders, IF needed. Swords defend as well as spears and can attack. If you use horses, you can keep the fighting on their land.

Anyway the most useful thing you can do is to maximize your tiles with workers. Getting those wheat tiles irrigated allows faster growth and the extra land you can grab.

The AI is likely to leave you alone, until the land is filled at these levels. If this was Demi or higher, you would probably want to get some defenders.

At those levels the AI may help themself to your land. They will have an advantage in troops that they sometime will threathen you with.

On the galleys, I was trying to say that you should not have build more than 2 in the first place, given the landmass. Actually I probably would not have make any.

Two curragh instead and sent them around the landmass. Then if they got back, I may send them out to look for other land and mite upgrade them at
that time.

One thing to consider when deciding to make a lib in a small town, is culture. Also do you see it as totally corrupt or not. If it is size 3 and not totally corrupt you can go ahead and do a lib.

You are expecting it to be worth having by th etime it is done as the town will be larger. If you get cheap libs, they may be worth doing for the culture, instead of a temple.

All I was saying is no knee jerk building. Evaluate and then decide if it makes sense. Same for barracks, they are not needed everywhere as you should not need all towns making troops.

If this is an AW game, then you may need all towns making troops, but some can do cats. In fact it may be ok to make troops without a barrack in that type of game. You can use them for MP duty and free the vets to go out to fight.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

It's not unreasonable to play a game at warlord and make a rule to never, ever build a defensive unit (spear, pike, musket, rifle, infantry, tow or mech) and see what happens. What will likely happen is that you build a lot of offensive units, worry about the AI attacking cause you have no defenders, attack them, and wipe them out faster than you think possible

 

[Mirc]

And (on an unrelated note, since we were talking about defenders, not units in general, which are essential) people managed to beat deity with no military, and got Regent no-military Domination victory! (maybe someone did even Monarch, not sure though)

 

[Aceman101]

It is quite possible to not make a single spear at Monarch or lower and have no problems. I learned from Aeson. You are not likely to be attacked at those levels until much later.

You never know how sneaky the A.I can be, even at Chieftain. But yes, I will cut back on defenders .

Then you can make better defenders, IF needed. Swords defend as well as spears and can attack. If you use horses, you can keep the fighting on their land.

Well, a few defenders arn't a bad choise for you border cities if you are at war.

Anyway the most useful thing you can do is to maximize your tiles with workers. Getting those wheat tiles irrigated allows faster growth and the extra land you can grab.

Will Do .

The AI is likely to leave you alone, until the land is filled at these levels. If this was Demi or higher, you would probably want to get some defenders.

I don't think I'll be experienced enough now to be able to be playing demi or higher.

At those levels the AI may help themself to your land. They will have an advantage in troops that they sometime will threathen you with.

Sound Scary .

On the galleys, I was trying to say that you should not have build more than 2 in the first place, given the landmass. Actually I probably would not have make any.

No Galley, No communication with other civs that you can sell to the civs you already know .

Two curragh instead and sent them around the landmass. Then if they got back, I may send them out to look for other land and mite upgrade them at that time.

What are curragh's are they some sort of ship? I have vanilla.

One thing to consider when deciding to make a lib in a small town, is culture. Also do you see it as totally corrupt or not. If it is size 3 and not totally corrupt you can go ahead and do a lib.

Yes - I think temples are better for culture because there cheaper, however, libs give more culture and science research but they cost much more shields.

If this is an AW game, then you may need all towns making troops, but some can do cats. In fact it may be ok to make troops without a barrack in that type of game. You can use them for MP duty and free the vets to go out to fight.

No, this isn't an always war game. I'm a warmonger myself but I find it so hard to conquer a civ on warlord now that i'm used to chieftain.

 

[Aceman101]

They are not essential. I never use defenses. Only in border cities, in times of war, if I'm in the Industrial age and can transport them with rails everywhere. In your core, they are one of the most useless things you might build.

What . You never build defenders, I find it alot easier when I attack a city to bring a defender or two. Because the A.I gets protective on their homeland (I would to). And when the A.I attacks your troops your offensive units won't stand a chance unless the A.I's ofenders are really, really obsolete. I'd bring about two caravels of defenders and about five caravels of offenders .

 

[Aceman101]

It's not unreasonable to play a game at warlord and make a rule to never, ever build a defensive unit (spear, pike, musket, rifle, infantry, tow or mech) and see what happens. What will likely happen is that you build a lot of offensive units, worry about the AI attacking cause you have no defenders, attack them, and wipe them out faster than you think possible

I'm not too keen about that plan. I'd get really worried about the A.I, they could sneak up on a town with no defenders and only one offender and attack it. Chances are the offender will win because offenders arn't designed to defend cities. To make myself clear, say a troop that is an OFFENDER attacks a troop that is defending a city but is actually an OFFENDER will have alot more chances of winning. So why not have a few defenders?.

 

[Aceman101]

You've probably heard the expression, "The best defense is a good offense.", right? You don't want to just huddle in your towns waiting to be attacked, which is what defensive units are mostly good for. When you see the enemy coming, you want to attack him if possible before he can reach your town(s). So build (mostly) units that are good at attacking like swords, horsemen, Mounted Warriors. Attack on YOUR turn, not waiting for the enemy to attack.

Yes - but you still have to worry about defending cities (As explained with the post above).

Defensive units like spears and pikes are rarely needed, and when you DO build them, they are usually to go along with your stack of doom for protecting your artillery-type units (cats, trebs, cannons, etc.)

That's True .

A good rule of thumb that I was taught is to go to your City View and, if a net 10 gold per turn (at least) is going to research, it's worthwhile to build a lib.

That is something I have never thought about, very good tip gmaharriet. I'll do that in my next game.

Markets work a lot like libraries, except that they increase the net gold going into your treasury as taxes by 50%. Banks will add another 50%, BUT if you are putting most of your gold into research, not much will go to taxes. Again, 50% of nothing is still nothing.

Part of the reason why i build markets is because i am then going to build banks and after banks i am then going to build the wall street. Which is worth it because 50gpt is a lot.

but banks don't help with happiness.

that's true.

Good luck!!!

I'll need it, Thanks for the tips gmaharriet .

 

[Redrake]

It's not unreasonable to play a game at warlord and make a rule to never, ever build a defensive unit (spear, pike, musket, rifle, infantry, tow or mech) and see what happens. What will likely happen is that you build a lot of offensive units, worry about the AI attacking cause you have no defenders, attack them, and wipe them out faster than you think possible

That would depend on the map you're using. I wouldn't advise you to use it on a huge pangaea map. Unless of course you build a wall of fortifications all along your border. As long as no enemy unit can get near one of your cities, you should be fine.

 

[Mirc]

What . You never build defenders, I find it alot easier when I attack a city to bring a defender or two. Because the A.I gets protective on their homeland (I would to). And when the A.I attacks your troops your offensive units won't stand a chance unless the A.I's ofenders are really, really obsolete. I'd bring about two caravels of defenders and about five caravels of offenders .

Better than bringing a defender or two, I'd bring a catapult or a horseman. It's a known fact that you have much higher results when fighting with fast units, Horsemen, Mounted Warriors, Knights, Cavalries. Bringing a defender with those would be totally useless, as it will take at least twice as many turns than the attackers to get to a city. And moving all your Horse army at a rate of 1 tile a turn because you have a spear with you is a very bad idea!

And when the A.I attacks your troops your offensive units won't stand a chance unless the A.I's ofenders are really, really obsolete.

That's the problem: never ever let the AI attack your offenders. It's a very basic rule and always a good idea. And if you know how to manage troops, you'll be much better defended in a city if you have even something as primitive as a Horseman than if you would have a spear. The spear just sits there and waits to be attacked. With a horseman or you can kill usually 3 enemy attacking units trying to get to your border city, by calculating the moves, retiring from the city when necessary, and always attacking the offenders. if you know how to fight. A spear wouldn't stand 3 attackers, at least unless the RNG gods are really with you!

Let me give you an example. You are in the middle ages. You are at war with a civ, let's say India. They bring 1 Longbowman to one of your border cities. If you have a Pikeman in the city*, the Longbowman, with its 4 offense points will have a high chance of killing the Pikeman, with its 3 defense points. However, if you have in that city a Longbowman, instead of a Pikeman, you can just let the enemy Longbowman advance until it's right next to the city, and attack it. You've got a Longbowman vs. Longbowman battle.... And the Longbowman has 4 attack and 1 defense.

Which odds do you prefer? (bolded parts are your troops)
Longbowman 4:3 Spearman
Longbowman 4:1 Longbowman

* the city is not over pop 6, and it doesn't have walls. It's anyway very hard to believe you would have walls or aqueducts in a border city, where enemy troops are likely to get.


I often use only offenders to defend my cities. And I can give exact proof that it's, most of the times, better.

 

[Mirc]

That would depend on the map you're using. I wouldn't advise you to use it on a huge pangaea map. Unless of course you build a wall of fortifications all along your border. As long as no enemy unit can get near one of your cities, you should be fine.

Yes, Pangaea would be harder, but on Warlord this should be very easy to do in any case.

 

[MAS]

To be clear, on higher difficulty levels (empire and above) and when you have multiple borders (often on pangaea maps) It becomes more usefull to make defenders.
But you should really only defend what the AI can reach within a reasonable number of turns. (one turn, usually)
If you don't make RoP agreements, then the enemy troops are not going to reach the middle of your empire before you can send some troops yourself to take care of it, putting defenders in those cities will thus be useless.

If you are going to attack with artillery (or catapults/trebs) then your stack is going to move at 1 tile a turn anyway, so then you could put a defender in there.

There is a builder strategy for deity level where it is recommended to build a load of defensive units. But I see that as a special situation, as you may want to sign RoP agreements there. And it also involves building cathedrals and such, so you'll have less sheilds for units anyway.

Last, if you play at sid difficulty, (I don't play sid, but this is what I read from some other people here on this forum) you are going to face such overwhelming number of enemy troops, that it becomes a necessity to make stacks composed of defenders/artillery/fast moving offenders. (just for the retreat ability) Just to keep your kill:loss ratio as high as possible in your favor, speed is a luxury here.

 

[gmaharriet]

Better than bringing a defender or two, I'd bring a catapult or a horseman. It's a known fact that you have much higher results when fighting with fast units, Horsemen, Mounted Warriors, Knights, Cavalries. Bringing a defender with those would be totally useless, as it will take at least twice as many turns than the attackers to get to a city. And moving all your Horse army at a rate of 1 tile a turn because you have a spear with you is a very bad idea!

Mirc, if you bring a catapult, you'll probably want a slow-moving defender to protect it. (I know that you know this.)

I find it best to choose between:
1)use a stack of ALL fast-movers, or
2)use combined arms of fast-movers, slow-movers and arty. The fast-movers are slowed by the rest of the stack, but still very useful for attacking a last unit (or a stray) and still being able to retreat to the safety of the stack (using their 2nd movement point).

Edit: X-post with MAS