My list of which victory type each civ is best suited for - Change my mind

[Hatsuwr]

Using latest beta, here's my list of which victory type I believe each civ is best suited for. Small clarification, but this is different than a list of which civs are best for a particular victory type.

Still slightly ambiguous, but I would frame this as asking: Compared to a civ with no biases, abilities, or unique units/buildings/improvements, in which victory condition does the civ in question have the greatest advantage?

Most things are situational of course - just making generalizations here.


One question I found myself unable to answer well while making this list is which victory type do faith production and culture production tend to aid most?

I also generally assume that having an advantage in tall play is a small push toward science/cultural, and an advantage toward wide play is a small push toward domination/diplomatic.

If I felt the difference between two types was especially small, I made a note of it in parentheses.

• Domination
  • Songhai
  • Huns
  • Rome
  • Poland
  • Persia
  • Carthage (Naval)
  • England (Naval)
  • Indonesia (Versatile)
  • Mongolia
  • Sweden
  • Denmark
  • Spain
  • Aztec
  • Japan (Science/Cultural second)
  • Zulu
  • Ottoman
  • Dutch (Naval)
• Cultural
  • Morocco
  • Celts (Domination second)
  • Venice (Versatile)
  • America
  • Arabia
  • Iroquois
  • Polynesia
  • France
  • Brazil
  • Shoshone
  • Egypt
  • Byzantine
• Science
  • Assyria
  • Russia (Domination second)
  • India
  • Ethiopia
  • Portugal
  • Babylon
  • Maya
  • Inca
  • Korea
  • China (Cultural second)
• Diplomatic
  • Greece (Cultural second)
  • Austria
  • Germany
  • Siam

 

[Legen]

Faith production is quite flexible, but has inherent uses for diplo play. Converted city-states have lower influence decay for civs sharing the same religion, and the founder gets 1 vote for every 10 converted cities in the world once the reformation national wonder is built.

Culture production is a must for cultural victory, as you need to unlock 2 tier 3 ideology tenets in order to build the CV wonder and win the game. Moreover, historic events scale from culture generation.

 

[DaniSciB]

Faith is a very versatile thing, just as religion is. The production of faith can help you achieve almost any victory depending on the characteristics of your religion, or simply to buy Great People .

If you have a religion focused on benefiting from a game of Domination (Hero Worship - Orders - Zealotry), then it will be much easier for you to go to domination .

If you have one focused on culture and tourism , logically a cultural victory will be simpler.

If you have one focused on gold and getting benefits in diplomacy , the diplomatic victory will be easier and less frustrating ... Etc...

On the other hand, the production of culture is something extremely important in all games, you don't want to be left behind in social policies. Logically, the production of culture in large quantities would benefit those who are trying to achieve a cultural victory.

 

[Pill]

Fun list for discussion!

I'm wondering what's your reasoning for putting Shoshone and Iroquois cultural? They both have unique stuff helping cities get started and be productive so I tend to go very wide with them; I usually go science or diplomatic (with some neighboring vassals) victories. I find it very hard currently to go wide and get a cultural victory unless you're America or Polynesia among others. Am I missing something?

 

[Hatsuwr]

Culture production is a must for cultural victory, as you need to unlock 2 tier 3 ideology tenets in order to build the CV wonder and win the game. Moreover, historic events scale from culture generation.

It seems like those 2 tier 3's come almost as a byproduct of pursuing tourism though. Maybe I just need to get better at getting tourism faster haha.
Do you happen to know more about the specifics of historic event rewards (especially tourism)? I haven't been able to find the math for that.

On the other hand, the production of culture is something extremely important in all games, you don't want to be left behind in social policies. Logically, the production of culture in large quantities would benefit those who are trying to achieve a cultural victory.

Besides the minimum culture required to get 2 tier 3 policies required for cultural victory, I tend to see culture output more as a tool to prevent others from achieving it (outside of multipliers that turn culture from world/national wonders and tiles into tourism).

Fun list for discussion!

I'm wondering what's your reasoning for putting Shoshone and Iroquois cultural? They both have unique stuff helping cities get started and be productive so I tend to go very wide with them; I usually go science or diplomatic (with some neighboring vassals) victories. I find it very hard currently to go wide and get a cultural victory unless you're America or Polynesia among others. Am I missing something?

For Shoshone, they are obviously defensive in nature. Nothing to really push them for a domination vic. Their increased territory... I agree that it is a benefit for wide play, but I see it more as a reinforcement to their defensive capabilities.

The encampment does it for me though. 3 food, 2 production, 2 culture, and 1 science each after researching rifling. In an ideal case, that's 24 tourism from tile culture in any city and 48 in a city with the right wonders. Get an ideology and you are looking at an additional 3 production, 3 science, or 4 food per encampment. I need to learn more about the per city penalties as they relate to cultural victories, but Shoshone might tip the balance to even benefiting from going wide. Still, solid choice for tall cultural victory in my mind.

On top of that, I think cultural victory depends on a good early ancient/classical era more than domination/science/diplomatic. Being able to choose ruins will aid all of course, but I think it will benefit cultural a bit more.


My thoughts for the Iroquois were similar. They are defensive in the sense that they have combat bonuses in forest and jungle, where they will typically settle (though this does give more domination-relevant offensive capability for well-placed enemies).

Their forest starting bias and ability to usefully preserve forests and jungles until zoos come around is what made me choose cultural. Any civ can keep forests and jungles around for zoos, but they will suffer in yields compared to the Iroquois, and likely won't have the same quantity. A city fully surrounded by them can ideally generate 36 culture and 108 tourism from tiles (up to 144 tourism for a city with the right wonders).

 

[Stalker0]

Arabia you could note as science second, they have no problems spamming science with some of the best of them. I actually think Greece is more domination than diplomatic.