Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by futurehermit, Jan 17, 2009.
Short summary: Chopping expansive granaries is good
Thank you for translating for the Liberal Arts Majors.
Hi. I recently moved up to Monarch. Never played a game through on that difficulty level until I choses Mehmed. I'm in the 18th century right now and I have a 1000 point lead on #2! I don't remember doing this good on Prince.
If you chop instead of grow, you save one full size of city growth, which translates to two sizes of city growth with a granary.
What you do is get gunpowder, first, and start building the janissaries(and slaving some possibly, in high food cities with little production, keep the unhappiness counter low though).
Then you can get nationalism next, for a surge in army size for right when you are about to attack.
Nationalism and drafting tends to hurt your economy/production, both because you have more unhappiness and less population, but also because you have to switch away from bureaucracy(which is often the civic of choice for beelining gunpowder and nationalism).
Hence, you net more research/production if first you build janissaries normally, then you draft your cities down, instead of building while drafting.
Of course moderate drafting + producing beats just producing. But out of the 2 quicker options, the best for overwhelming foes with Janissaries is:
build then fast draft.
as opposed to
fast draft while build.
Maybe you'll have the luxury of having enough time to build, then slow draft + build, then fast draft. But often not. If you do have that luxury do slowdraft + production until shortly before you start your conquering of the world.
The fast draft may start, or finish (much better), just when the opponents start to get units to counter the Janissaries. But a small amount of counters won't be enough, and you'll mostly fight the less advanced armies that you get +25% against. Musketmen don't even 'counter' Janissaries, so you could continue drafting them as a strong unit until someone gets military science, steel, or rifling (of course you'll be heading towards one of those techs also).
chopping normal granaries is good too though, no
Sometimes I find it not too necessary to chop expansive granaries, because the city doesn't have more good tiles to work beyond the 1st or 2nd. So growing to 3-4 fast doesn't help especially much.
But the problem with whipping non-expansive granaries is you tend to have to spend time working subpar tiles (while you are size 3 waiting to get halfway done with the granary for a 1 pop whip, or waiting to get to size 4 for a 2 pop whip). So chopping non-expansive granaries is much more important.
chopping granaries is always good imo.
I'll whip them if I'm at the happy cap, otherwise, I agree.
EXP is better than I first thought when I started playing CIV4. Even though it's a hammers only bonus, working a forested plains hill when building a worker first saved some 6-7 turns (EPIC speed) over working a 3 food tile. The bonus to workers is a nice edge, let alone granaries.
In another game I was NOT EXP and settled a spectacular floodplain city as my second city before I counted up how much I would have. Could have used the immediate health on that one.
I'll chip in on this and say he's always been a favourite of mine too.
Great traits. All those cheap buildings which are built almost everywhere. Great UU and UB.
No one else ever seems interested in playing him though. I couldn't get any love for him when trying to set up Monarch Student III, but imo he's definitely one of the strongest leaders in the game.
You've always got a chance when you play him.
I'm not really that keen on the beard tho.
I've been playing Mehmed for a few weeks (huge, marathon, warlord/noble, tectonics, 60% water, better bts AI). He's definitely very versatile. The extra happiness from Hamman's and the cheap courthouses mean that if you can survive into the middle ages, you can easily catapult forward. (My last warlord game, I had about 3x the production capacity and military might of the next civ.)
The UU is only so-so. Grenadiers tend to rip up the Jans, but it can be good if you beeline for Jans faster then your opponent brings Grenadiers online. It's not something that I depend on, but I'm more of a builder rather then a warmonger during the first half of the game.
Currently trying out a game where I started isolated with Tokugawa, took me a while to take over his 4 cities and now I have the entire continent to myself. However, I started out a long ways away from copper and had some other false starts - so I'm waiting to see whether Mehmed's mid-game strength can pull me back into the running.
I think Mehmed is a good choice for folks who want to walk the line between warring and building. I can push the empire in either direction.
Janisarries aren't meant to fight grenadiers. Ideally, you'll be using them against pikes, maces, knights, longbows and crossbows.
What do most people use as a promotion line with Jannisaries?
I'm going to guess CI, Cover to go after Longbows as the dominant defender of the time....
Does anyone see value in going for First Strike Promotions? I admit I don't fully understand them, but I thought they could be quite powerfull if you make it down the line, and if you are the dominant unit in a battle.
Drill would be awesome on Janissaries if you can get up to at least D3, but D1 and D2 are pretty weak that it won't work great. Probably worth it to promote a few along the drill line.
I generally just go up the combat line until march becomes available.
A good few of my janissaries get the combat + pinch combo, especially if the enemy are near to Gunpowder, others try to get combat 3 + march (and by that time they are usually upgraded to rifles) and maybe 30% get the CG promotions, they make great city and fort defenders. Most of my janissaries are drafted with theocracy so they only start with 2 exp but have little difficulty in earning their own promotions.
I'm playing Suleiman now. Just got my Jans, running Theocracy, so they come with 5XP. Just got nationalism, so I'll start drafting some as well. So far, I've just been going C1, with a combo of C2 or cover for second promotion. Nobody else is near gunpowder, so I'm hoping I'll be able to take out at least 2 or 3 opponents, if I can.
Or, at least I want to get through Carthage and grab the Holy Roman capital. 3 Golds, and a shrine for the religion for all 4 people on my landmass.
All the leaders with many discounted buildings are very strong imo.
Sury, Zara, Mehmed.
Mehmed also has a great UU and a great UB which makes him an altogether excellent leader.
Mehmed/Ottoman is my favorite default leader/Civ combo. Very strong and very flexible. Jans are very flexible as well. A stack of Jans usually has a couple promoted up the Drill line to Drill IV and a couple more with Combat/Formation (all for stack defense). The base stack gets promoted up the Combat line.
A leader with no hair on his face, is nothing but a public disgrace
As for his game-related strenths, i'd say the janny can win your medieval war for you, if timed correctly.
Promotions should always be spread. I mean, some Combat, some Drill, some even Hills or Forest for the protection of your SoD.
Or maybe i'm just talking out of my arse, because i've just played him once and won easily on monarch
In hindsight, i guess the most important feature is all the cheap buildings, which fit my playing style (REX). It meant all the crappy new cities were up to spec in no-time.
Overall good leader, well suited for all kinds of starts, maps and VC's.
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