My Marathon/Monarch Rome game

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

Hello everybody.

I am playing a marathon game as Rome. Since the start I managed to conquer all the mediterranean, from Spain to Babylon, from Gaul to deep Egypt.

Over the loooong game I managed to:
- win the Rome UHV
- prevent the spawn of Byzantines (being solid)
- face the Arabian aggressive spawn and conquer Makkah (now “Macna”)
- wipe the Moors back to Marrakus
- refuse the Spain flip, conquer Madrid (now “Madralis” ) and make the Spanish civ collapse/disappear
- refuse the France flip, conquer Paris (now “Parisia”) and make the French civ collapse/disappear
- be attacked by the Holy Rome (Germany?) at their spawn, probably because the holy city for Islam is Carthago (isn’t it strange that they declare war to me even if my Empire Religion is Carholicism?)

The biggest challenge of the game until now has been that of constantly being stable/solid by controlling overexpansion, the spreading of religions different than Catholicism (the Empire Religion I chose), working on spreading the Catholicism and to make the 45+ cities empire growing, focusing on finding the correct development for each city.

At this point of the game I am focusing on improving the already good relationship with some selected civs: Ethiopia, Norway, Tibet and Germany.

The game is ongoing (800-somethigg AD now, Russia spawned recently).

India and Turkey collapsed, so this granted me more space to expand and acquire strategic luxury resources like spices and gems. Now I blocked the expansion of the Turks and secured the area until Persepolis and the border to India, with the Independent cities that will be conquered as soon as the expansion factor will allow it.

After all this said: I would need some help with understanding how Vassals work.

When Germany (Holy Rome) spawned and declared war to me, I sent the 3 generals (Scipio Africanus, Vespasianus and Traianus) with the army and stopped their attack. Just before me conquering Frankfurt (the capital of Holy Rome), the Germans were willingful to Capitulate and become a Vassal State, but immediately after me conquering Frankfurt and moving the armies towards the last two (basically undefended) cities they refused and keep refusing to become my Vassal.
The same happens to Ethiopia, which is very underdeveloped and which I continuously keep sending gifts hoping for a Vassal State.

How does this work? Why do they refuse and don’t propose?

Any questions or suggest about the game?

 

[ThreeBlackSevens]

What does Ethiopia say when you hover the mouse over the Vassal State button? If they say “You’ve grown too powerful for us” then it’s just because at a certain point you have too much power to peace vassal anyone. My guess is that’s in place to prevent the player from instantly taking over the whole world by peace vassaling everyone just for having an extremely large military. I’m not sure exactly what the threshold is or if Vassals/Defensive Pacts play into it but I know it’s a thing.

My best guess for Holy Rome is that now that you’re not threatening a city, they don’t see you as enough of a threat to capitulate, but that’s just a wild guess lol.

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

I was much more of a threat the second time rather than the first. I could have wiped them in just one more turn, but I chose to spare them to have a “border country” and not to overexpand.

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

For Ethiopia it’s exactly that. And also for Holy Rome...

 

[Hightower]

There is a hard cap on the number of vassals you can have at any one time; I believe it's four for peace-vassals and five including vassals that submitted in war. If you already have five vassals, barring some special circumstances (I think the cap is affected by some civics etc. although don't remember specifically), you can't acquire more without using the World Builder.

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

Thanks for the useful information.
Unfortunately I have no vassals at the moment, but maybe it is too early, as the year is around 980 AD (last night update).

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

Any suggestions for where to settle in the new world? Any strategic resources to acquire or good areas to expand in?

 

[Orbii]

Any suggestions for where to settle in the new world? Any strategic resources to acquire or good areas to expand in?

The USA has an old "triangle" of cities which everyone settled when Domination victories were easier. It covers almost all of the US and is outside the US flip, that being New Orleans, Denver (on the oil), and a city just west of the Appalachian Iron (this one I'm uncertain on).

I welcome correction by another veteran as to the triangle.

 

[star15389]

It's on one of the tiles called "Chicago" in England's map. Can be on Lake Michigan or on the river, 1S of the canonical location. You also want to found Winnipeg or Fargo to choke Canada though that's less of an issue. WAY back in the day before there was Canada people would found Fort Rupert I think 2W of Montreal to keep the Americans from going around your cultural blockade

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

Any images? I am getting a bit confused here...

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

Update: in one of the runs I definetly underestimated the stability loss from razing cities and the empire ended up split in two, with a late Byzantine spawn in 1270 AD.

I reverted to an older save to avoid this and try to keep the Empire ongoing with a good stability...

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

Update:

I reverted to a save that was prior the Roman Empire invasion of the Turkish lands, which is absolutely necessary to prevent and stop the multiple spawns of armies of Turks in Persia and Babilonia...
That is a very painful part to handle with and I hope that razing one city and keeping 3 more at low level of development will be a viable strategy to keep at least Shaky as stability...

At least I am securing one resource of gems and two of Silk

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

Update

After the Seljuk problem in Persia, the Mongol spawned and destroyed China, conquered many cities in Russia and tried to invade Persia. I was able to oppose them with no losses and force them to sign a peace treaty.

The economy of the Empire is now a mess and I hope to recover from te -150/-200 gold per turn with the San Marco Basilica wonder in Venice.
In the meanwhile the spies are stealing gold from the Polish, Mughals, Mali and Moors.

The expansion in Ethiopia with four cities is going well, with a lot of production and development of the cities themselves.

I am planning to settle another administration centre (tor reduce the maintenance costs from palace distance) either in Memphis (middle of Egypt) or in Persepolis (Parsa, in Persia).

Memphis would have an effect of reduction of the maintenance costs of the 4 Ethiopian cities, of Thebae, Petra, Hierusalem and Macna (Makkah), allowing more settlements in the area with low expansion hits (many historical and contested tiles).

Persepolis will have a much higher effect for the 3 cities in Turkenatan, Babylon area and affect also Hierusalem and Tyrus.

I am thinking of which one to choose.

Other options (also for future) could be Londinium (London) (to affect Great Britain and French cities) and Carthago (for further expansion in Africa via conquest of the Mali empire).

Any suggestions or ideas?

 

[BaneFire]

I'd say in Persia for roleplaying purposes.

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

To me roleplaying would mean Memphis

 

[BaneFire]

You think? If the Roman Empire lasted a lot longer than it did I would totally see them setting up a second capital in Ctesiphon/Babylon rather than Constantinople or Memphis.

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

In this game I already set up a secondary administrative centre in Athens.

i guess that it depends on the culture of the city and on its position. Another factor could be that of the expansion perspective and richness of the region.

Egypt and Africa are quite valuable in terms of resources, likewise Persepolis and Persia. Londinium would be a strategic position and centre (moreover it is on a contested tile, so it would allow a bigger city with lesser impact on the expansion stability (like Athens and differently from Memphis and Persepolis or Babylon).

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

The year is around 1300. Rome is pop 24, Athens pop 10. Other major centres are Byzantium, Carthago, Alexandria and Memphis (pop 7).
Another big centre will be Londinium.

I stopped Babylon and Parsa to pop 3 because their weight on the expansion stability is huge.

Every city in the historical and contested area I am allowing them to be pop 5 (they are around 20, very close to each other, at the minimum distance possible without losing resources).

Cities in the core are:
- Roma pop 24
- Neapolis pop 11
- Mediolanum pop 10
- Venetia pop 9
- Aquileia pop 10

Overall the Empire has around 60 cities (and yes, every single turn is incredibly long and complicated to process) (and yes, I need the “State Party” policy asap to remove the number of cities cost).

 

[ThreeBlackSevens]

Well for strategic purposes, I’d suggest keeping it in or west of Babylon, since Iran spawns in 1500. Unless you want to eventually expand into India, in which case you may as well build it in Persepolis and retake Iran later.

Also not in Anatolia if the Seljuks conquered anything, because of the Ottomans. (I will say though from a previous Byzantine game that fighting those Ottoman rebels is very fun!)

Also, with such a large empire, Isolationism may be worth it and help save your economy. 60 new specialists and you’d still get decent trade routes for the distance. c:

 

[Gianmarco Silvestro]

I am running Isolationism since 1050 and it’s very useful indeed.

I am convinced to have the next centre in Memphis, to support the expansion in Africa. The next one will be Londinium, then Carthago, then Melitene and only then I will have the centres in non historical or contested areas. This because I prefer to have these centres at pop 10 or more and I prefer not to have to big hits on the overexpansion stability to allow me to have the maximum amount of cities per region (following the principle above mentioned of the nearest possible cities).

Besides of this, I am planning to found 9 more cities in the North-West Africa, 4 more in Anatolia, 4 more in Iberia ans 2 more in Gallia to maximize the land exploitation.