My Mind is Special: Professors and Academic Freedom.

[bhsup]

I don't understand a majority of the responses in this thread... they are just random guesses and aphoristic pronouncements with no grounding in anything resembling fact.

As for "teaching should be more important than publishing", why on earth should there even be a general answer to that question? Why shouldn't schools decide that based on the goals and strengths of the school in question? Amherst College, for instance, might weight teaching higher than research, but Cal Tech might rate research much higher than teaching. Neither is the generally correct approach.

The OP did not prohibit discussion of anything besides a university setting. Elementary and secondary schools have tenured teachers as well.

 

[Earthling]

Not opposed to tenure... and don't have any anecdotes (yet... undergrad student fyi) of any problems. From what I've heard it's actually pretty rough at my universityl - they have something like 6 years to get tenure (publish/patents - very little based on teaching) or they never will (ie. must leave for somewhere else from what I've heard - I'm not close to knowing all the workings of this though). I think both awarding or suspending tenure should almost never be based on controversial opinions; in the sciences if they just lose their research dollars then that's that, but still it's not good to systematically oppress certain ideas. Also, it's an excellent point that some places are much more research oriented than others; this is something hard to look at beyond a case by case basis.

 

[Bill3000]

The OP did not prohibit discussion of anything besides a university setting. Elementary and secondary schools have tenured teachers as well.

Sorry, but it's quite clear that the OP was specifically talking about university professors. It's not a matter of prohibiting discussion, it's a matter of relevance.

 

[aelf]

The privatdozent isn't exactly a great scheme either...

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Teach what you're supposed to teach. If I want a political class I'll sign up for a political class.

Also I think that teaching wrong things should be bad too. The problem being, who decides what's wrong? People have a right to be offensive though. I'm not sure exactly how far that right is/should be taken though eg: is it okay to deny the holocaust in a history course?

It is most assuredly NOT okay to deny the Holocaust in a history course, or any other course. The Holocaust happened. That's not an opinion; it's documented fact.

Here in Alberta there was a high school teacher, Jim Keegstra, who taught his students that the Holocaust never happened. He really screwed with those kids' minds, for years, making them regurgitate his anti-Semitic crap or suffer a failing grade. Thankfully he was finally caught, tried, and no longer teaches. His only punishment was the loss of his teaching license and a token fine -- in my opinion, he should have been jailed for the abuse he perpetrated on his students all those years.

...would be the position I would agree with. Professors should be able to pursue projects relevant to their field freely and without fear of adverse consequences. I don't see why a physics professor would need to bring up political activism in his class though.

Because sometimes people get political about physics...? Like when they were going to turn on that great big gadget last year (in Switzerland?) and some people were convinced the planet would be destroyed...

Isn't it really hard for a prof to get tenure if they can't teach?

Just because they know their subject matter doesn't mean they are good at teaching it to other people. And profs who don't start out as teachers don't do the same four-year basic teaching degree that regular teachers do.

I'm curious does no one have an ancedote about a bad prof.?

History teachers... I love history, but have only encountered two teachers who were any good at teaching it. One was my junior high social studies teacher, and the other is a prof at the local college who teaches (among other subjects) Classical History.

The bad history profs at RDC... the first one (Canadian history) always spoke in a monotone and did weird things with his eyebrows. His class was so boring that I had trouble staying awake (really). On the day of the final exam, he suddenly burst into song eek, claiming that singing us a song was the only way we'd understand one of the questions!

The second one (also Canadian history) couldn't pronounce the Northwest Coast names for the First Nations bands. She would pace back and forth at the front, the entire class... wearing horrible squeaky sandals that made me want to rip them off her and tell her to go barefoot if she couldn't be still! She got a really bad performance review by the students and only lasted the one year there.

The third falls into the category of not teaching what he was supposed to. The course was an introduction to medieval history, and was supposed to be a direct continuation of the other (good) instructor's course in classical history, which ended at the Fall of Rome. Instead of medieval history, we were told about the religions of India, with a little bit about one or two attempted invasions of Constantinople. We students definitely didn't get what we paid for. But protesting did no good, as this instructor has been around that place almost as long as the building itself. Oh, and the first class, he spent quite a bit of time stressing that we could call him "Doctor" or "John" (since that was his name)... but NOT "Mr."

In terms of 'bad profs', I think it's more a matter of poor professionalism---e.g. prof cuts class, ends it early, but I don't think that's a common occurence in a tenured prof. I've been in classes with creationist profs, and they've usually kept their beliefs out of the classroom, but it can be a little embarrassing when they try to get publicity for their beliefs. If being overly publicity-seeking can hurt a schools reputation and maybe rub off on the students there, I think a prof should consider self-censure on their more controversial beliefs. Not saying nothing should be researched.

I've seen lots of unprofessional behavior, but a few take the bakery! The first day of the term, I waited around for my afternoon psychology class. I had a lot to do, and could have used some time to go downtown and do my errands, but I had this class... and as soon as the instructor got there, he said, "Hey, I don't feel like having class today, do you? Go on, then, see you next time!"

Of course, by that time it was too late for me to do my errands...

And then there was the sociology instructor who smoked in class (not allowed -- especially in the wing where the biology labs were!) and told us that the class clashed with his son's soccer practice, so how about we have the class an hour later...? I told him I couldn't, as the buses didn't run that late. He said, "Can't you get a ride from somebody?"

I dropped that class.

 

[Bill3000]

Valka D'Ur, this isn't a thread about how crappy your high school and college classroom experiences were. This is a thread about the merits of tenure of professors in universities.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Valka D'Ur, this isn't a thread about how crappy your high school and college classroom experiences were. This is a thread about the merits of tenure of professors in universities.

Bill3000, this isn't a forum where people should be rude and whine about another person's post when that person is answering questions asked by other people and commenting on personal experiences with teaching (I've had teachers' training; have you?).

So sorry that I never went to university; that obviously makes me unqualified to have an opinion on post-secondary education instructors. [/sarcasm]

 

[Bill3000]

Bill3000, this isn't a forum where people should be rude and whine about another person's post when that person is answering questions asked by other people and commenting on personal experiences with teaching (I've had teachers' training; have you?).

I was merely telling you to stick to the topic at hand. This isn't some sort of woman's gossip forum where old ladies talk about the cute things their six cats are doing. This thread is about the merits of tenure.

So sorry that I never went to university; that obviously makes me unqualified to have an opinion on post-secondary education instructors. [/sarcasm]

No, but if you're posting anecdotes, it ought to be relevant anecdotes.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

And you became a mod when...? I follow the Site Feedback forum fairly closely, and I don't see your name among the recently promoted people.

A previous poster asked about bad instructors. So I posted about bad instructors. It's been asked if instructors should have tenure based on work performance, ie. do they do the job for which they were hired. I say any compensation they receive should be based on merit. If they don't provide what they are paid to provide (for example, the history prof who rattled on about Indian religion instead of the feudal system), they should not receive tenure or anything else. They should be fired.

Clear enough?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Because sometimes people get political about physics...? Like when they were going to turn on that great big gadget last year (in Switzerland?) and some people were convinced the planet would be destroyed...

And that is why politics shouldn't mix with physics.