1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

My musings on why Civ 5 is not the GOTY

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Catt_Ironheart, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Catt_Ironheart

    Catt_Ironheart Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    So after much thought on why I am not hooked to Civ 5, and am still playing Civ 4 I decided to jot down my notes and thoughts. I know we all play the game for different reasons, and find fun in different ways. I am a total fan of the Civilization series since I first played the first installment while skipping class to go to the mall. The Radio Shack had it on one of their PC’s. Oh I skipped a lot of class to play that! Eventually I got the one for SNES, which was alright I guess. When I became a real adult (had a JOB and $) I bought a PC and have bought every installment and expansion since (minus Revolution). I can say with every previous installment I loved the game, and couldn’t put it down, to the detriment of work, school, and relationships, etc lol. For 5 I did as usual and bought the game it was released (from Steam) and jumped right into it. At first it seemed really good because it was new and neat. It was basically the second day where I really started to lose interest, but I continued playing. One week …. I was bored. Holy moly! Has this ever happened with a Civilization game for me? Nope, I simply was no longer having fun. So here are my thoughts. Mind you I didn’t add in bugs because those always exist, nor AI issues for the most part, again that was always an issue. (List is in no particular order)

    Leaders

    Custom Name – The length of the names are too short, as well as the Civ Name. A trifle point, but an annoyance nonetheless. I am a person that likes customizing names of rulers and even the civ names themselves. I personally don’t want to be Napoleon or someone else, I want to rule the Roman Empire, or rename it.

    Language – Yes, it is neat, but it is also cheesy and gets old quick. Not to mention when you hear some of the leaders speaking a language they didn’t speak. I also think the kungfu movie thing is funny. They say this long tirade at me, and then at the bottom it reads, “Oh, it is you.” Or something. Now I speak German, English and Spanish (although Spain was snubbed hard) but I still think that keeping the language as the players is best.

    Look nice – I congratulate them on the models. I prefer this over the cartoon look.

    Diplomacy

    What do these treaties do? – What the heck is a treaty of secrecy?

    Disposition – I am not a fan of this being hidden. What do I pay advisors for? Normally they would be able to say why the country likes us, or hates us … I just don’t understand why having numbers seems unrealistic when it is pretty much what the state department does towards other nations anyways. I also wish that they would be friendlier, like when I liberate a nation I have only ever traded with and then I am called bad names from them. This makes absolutely no sense.

    Map / Improvements

    Farms – I love the way farms look. They really remind me of home in the countryside of Germany. The only problem with farms is they add to population which adds to unhappiness, but that comes later.

    Roads – I like how these look as well, and I like how not everything is overrun by roads. I think as an addition the trading posts should only be allowed to be built on roads. The rails could have used more work. I would not mind seeing them run along the preexisting road (if there was one).

    Rivers – My god! Is that a river or did someone get a marker out and draw it on?

    One Unit Per Tile – I like the idea of this, but I am not sure if it really works and it definitely is not believable for me. How big is a tile? How many people does each unit represent? I know many hate the stack of doom, but truthfully that is combat. You have divisions with all sorts of different elements in an area. This would only make sense if these tiles represented a small area, but if you look at the Earth map the tiles are large areas.

    Hexes – I am not convinced that these are any better than squares. With tiles I can go in the eight directions: North, South, West, East, NW, SW, NE, and SE. With hexes I can go NW,NE, East, West, SW and SE. For a strategy game hexes are good because of positioning, but in my opinion it doesn’t work in a Civilization game. The only thing I do believe is that it helps with making terrain look better.

    Trading Posts – Wow these are ugly. Why didn’t we just get the old town system from Civilization 4 back? That does make sense, and they can look a lot nicer. Maybe trading post can be the first tier on the way to town, after all that is how many towns were started. I also think building these everywhere is better than farms (even though it looks hideous), but I think they should be limited to being on roads then (even if they institute the old town way).

    Landmarks – This is a good idea. It reminds me of SMAC! I think they should add on to this and have improvements. Like tourist traps, or research facilities. It would definitely depend on the landmark, but maybe have a choice as well. A scuba diving resort for the Great Barrier Reef would be nice.

    Academy – I like the way these look, as well as the other Great Person buildings that can be built on the land. I think it is interesting to not have them in the city.

    Trees swaying – nope they don’t move with the wind. No show stopper, but it does make it more realistic and pretty.

    Zoom – zoom is horrible, but I think things are not made that nice looking. Zooming in may show how ugly things are?

    Clouds – I like this feature. It reminds me of another game though. Was it a Heroes of Might and Magic game? The only complaint may come from the extra rendering needed for it, but I suppose that depends on the computer and even what the player wants.

    Hills – why do all hills have the same value? Desert hill = Plains hill?

    Cities / Borders

    Population – I know this is trivial, but what is the total population of my town? For some reason I like it when I see that my city in the BC’s has half a million people or something.

    Science – I do like how science is tied in with the population. I am actually happy about the loss of the slider scale. I think me building a library is my adjusting the gold to research ratio.

    Taxing – loss of the slider scale does bring to my mind the idea of taxes. In some ways one can say that is what the slider scale represented. I think now it should be like many other games with taxes: raise taxes = more money, but less happiness. I wouldn’t go as far as doing like in Empire:Total War and having high taxes make your cities poorer .. I think that would be too in depth for a game that encompasses over 6000 years of history.

    Naming cities – As mentioned before I like custom names and I hate it when I make cities and have to go in to the city to edit the name. Bring the option back about naming the city.

    City Garrison – These guys really need to defend the city when it is attacked. If this is supposed to be 1UPT then how can a unit go in there without really destroying the defending unit? Also those defending garrisons should get the defense bonus that the city offers for the walls and whatever is built there.

    City Defense – I love how cities can fire on enemies now. I do believe this should be something that must be upgraded and with upgraded cost money. For instance, if an army attacked L.A. aside from the gangs fighting back would the city itself shoot rockets? They would if a rocket system was built to defend the city … with these upgrades they should also do damage par with the technology. In modern times the cities are way too easy to take; they only need a couple of hits really from a modern armor.

    Planning / working – GAH!!! I can’t stand allocating my citizens because I can’t see half my hexes. The menu bars cover them up and when I zoom out things get way too small. The selecting the circles is fine, but let me see everything a bit better.

    Queue – I like this. It makes sense and I don’t accidentally lose my Wonder production because I needed to pump out something else real quick.

    Growth / area – I like how cities influence no longer grows uniformly. I do wish when the border grow I can choose which hex I want.

    Territory / borders - The fact that now a city can’t pop up on my border and take away the horses I have been breeding for generations. (Barring culture bomb). I do think this would be a great feature to add into diplomacy! Buy, demand, or gain territory in treaties. Think of SW united states?

    No distance – This is both good and bad. To me it is unrealistic, especially in the games where the computer plops a city down right next to my capital when his other city is way on the other side of the continent. Distance (until the modern age) has always been one of the worst enemies of nations. If it takes a month for the rulers orders to get to the other side of the country you will have issues. Think of how many colonies actually lasted.

    Technology

    Tree – wow that tree is small. I wonder if it has more techs than the original Civilization? Also why do I have to research all the techs? What does horseback riding have to do with me learning banking?

    Future Techs – These are about worthless except for points. Points aside, I would rather they add something like added production, food, maybe extra points to social policies.

    Wonders / Buildings

    Wonders – For the most part these are weak. What happened to free buildings? Really aside from a few of the wonders the majority are overrated.

    Expensive – I know this has been talked about a lot, but I feel the costs of buildings is excessive. I do not see how a nation of cities with a bazaars and coliseums seems right. Oh wait I am supposed to specialize the cities. Tell me how many cities or towns you know of that do not have a library or theater. Of course city size does matter somewhat, but even small towns will have universities, or even nuclear plants. Some small towns even have stadiums for professional sports teams (Sinsheim, German is where Hoffenheim plays (soccer, german pro league), but the population is around 35K. I personally enjoy building cities with everything I can.

    Units
    Renaming units – I do not understand why this feature was left out. Is it game breaking? No, but it is a step back. I hear when a unit is promoted that you can change it .. why then? For me I would like to rename my general to something like Lord Vader, or whatever I fancy.

    Warfare – Parts of me like the fact that a unit can survive an attack, but when 50 years goes by and my cruiser is still fighting that frigate I get a bit impatient. Other than that the range of units is amazing! I am now just assuming that each tile is like 100-200 meters based on archer range. If that is the case I understand the 1UPT scenario a bit more, but then we are not talking about Civilization anymore. How many hexes would be needed to circumnavigate the globe? Don’t bother looking it up, because if one hex represented a km that would be an awfully long game (and Italy would be a shorter drive). Other gripes with ranged combat is when I think my cannon can bombard the city, but instead it moves right up to the city. How many archers and siege weapons have been lost with that? Would be nice to switch to ranged mode where it shows an overlay for you to shoot (like the city overlay).

    Workers / civilian stacking – Someone please tell me why my Great Merchant doesn’t want to go to the same tile with my Great Scientist or my workers? I suppose his ego is sooooo big? How many times on a rocky world has your general got stuck behind another nation’s worker?

    Great People

    General – I really wish they could join a unit. At least for the ride?

    Merchant – WTFO? I can’t do a trade mission in another nation, only a city-state? Am I missing something? I guess he is not a Great Merchant then? Maybe a Kinda Great Merchant?

    Pathing – Please, please fix the pathing nightmare. I know 1UPT makes this worse, but even if the hex across the continent has a unit of mine in it I assure you that 10 turns from now there won’t be that problem and if there is let me “fix” it when it is there. On Pangaea mapsI stopped getting the tech that allowed my units to embark. Geez, how many of my units were killed by pirates without me seeing it?

    Options / Civilopedia / Reports / Advisors

    Options - What is up with the lack of game/amp/video options? Also can any tell me how to show hex lines?

    Civilopedia – why have it if it doesn’t tell me anything? Can I get exact numbers and more links.

    Reports - The reports I find to be nearly worthless. Some more number crunching information please.

    Advisors - Yeah, as with reports just give me the numbers. I would rather have the advisors from Civ 2. At least they were entertaining. That Entertainment guy was awesome.

    Items From Previous Civs/Mods I Miss

    I know Civ 5 is not Civ 4, but something that has made the series so successful is the evolution in the game. Each Civ were similar except they each added something to the game. From each series, to expansions, to the mods that so many people made. Personally I think many of these modders should just have been given a budget to make Civ 5, and then the freedom to make a better version of Rise of Mankind, or something. I will list some things that I believe should have made it into Civ 5.

    Religion / Inquisition – Yep I miss religions. I think they took a step backwards by taking this out. When Civ 4 hit I was so happy with this. It was always something missing from the game. Religion has shaped society more than anything.

    Quests / Events - I liked these, and it was something to strive for. Really awesome when your nation got a better shield or something.

    Revolutions – Terrific mod. I think this solved the city rush problem. It also added so much more flavor when your nation enters a civil war. It needed more tweaking, but it was a very good base.

    Espionage – even though I am not a fan of espionage I know others love it. I did like when I had the option to turn it off though.

    Corporations – Again, I am not a fan, but they could have been implemented as well.

    Barbarians Settling Mod (forgot the right name) – This was also incredible, and made the game so much more realistic. I loved having a terra game and eventually leaving to find the New World with new civs, without our religions and totally foreign to the Old World.

    Trade Caravans – I liked these for rushing things. I never understood why the rich city wouldn’t help their artic oil city out.

    City Trade Routes – Not sure why the trade route with the capital is the only one. Cities generally trade with their neighbors, not just the capital.

    Leaders clothing from Civ 3 - I am funny, but I liked seeing the leaders in different clothes. See Lincoln in bearskins or Zulu in a suit depending on the era.

    Trading Posts – Since cities are so costly why can’t we throw up a trading post? Maybe add a new unit (trader) to go to the resource and set up a camp. The camp actually adds on your territory. The camp cannot make things or anything like a city though.

    Corruption – I actually was a fan of this over penalties for number of cities. Corruption is the most common form of waste for governments and even business.

    Vassals – I liked being an overlord. MUHHAHAHA

    Resources

    Where is copper? – I know this is a small issue, but really … where is it?

    Cows, and bananas, and wheat, O my! – These type of resources suck. Bananas make my wife and I happy, why can’t they make my people. Anyone happy with steak? Seems ridiculous that these important resources aren’t as important as a trading post.

    Luxury resources – I won’t get in that here.

    Strategic resources – This makes no sense. So the iron is that limited that I can’t make any more swords, but I can make as many tanks as I want without metal? Horses don’t breed?

    City-States

    I would get rid of these. This is probably the lamest idea of the game. I am not understanding why my nation, which rules the entire continent, has to bow and scrape to one little city. I would understand if religion were a factor and the city the holy city for my religion. I wouldn’t be able to take the city without angering my own people, but that is not the case. Someone show me exampled in history where one little city is dictating to countries. The only way to make them work is to make them into minor nations (like the Civ 4 Mod) and allow them to eventually become nations. Maybe make them barbarians too.

    Gold

    I found that late game I could buy units/buildings quicker than they could be built. So I just set all buildings to wealth generation and buy what I want. This seems strange to me because apart of the “building” units time would be the training. So am I buying fresh recruits or mercenaries? Both of which would have an impact on the quality of troops and loyalty. Then also if buildings can be bought outright, why can’t they be rushed?

    Social Policies

    Personally I am fine with the new system, except why does a large nation get policies slower? Generally history shows with more people and land that policies change quicker than smaller ones, which are more likely to hold on to tradition. I do not like that I am not really sure what my empire is, or what I am. Am I a president, king or what?

    Happiness

    This is probably my biggest beef with the game. So how is it that the number of cities makes people more unhappy? Usually that was a pride thing, and helped to build a national spirit. Also population effects population way too much. My suggestion would be to tone down the unhappiness from population or just eliminate the unhappiness from city number. Also the luxury resources should stack, but decreasing happiness by one for each additional luxury resource, with one being the lowest. Global happiness doesn’t make sense to me. People may be peeved in New York for something, but in Texas they may not care. Well at least this doesn’t end your reign, because the route I normally take is not to care about happiness and see how far in the negatives that will go. Amazing how I can steamroll the world and have the entire world unhappy with no riots, no one overthrowing me. They just don’t eat and breed, or fight so well, or work as hard. As long as I have gold it doesn’t matter. So am I exploiting the game like this, or is this a core-game flaw?

    SUMMARY

    For me the state of the game is unacceptable, and doesn't seem as much as a successor to the Civilization line. I don't understand how it can actually have less content then the previous one. How is it that modders, whom are all skilled in their own way are not getting paid for their works? Why couldn't they use what they learned from Civ 4 and the modding community? I also find it an insult that even if I wanted to return it for being unfinished I can’t. I have a friend that only played consol games of which for the most part I looked down on. I figured consoles were inferior to PC’s. They can’t be upgraded, they can’t do as much, and they cost a bunch of money. He did always have a point when he said that the games he bought worked. He had too often heard me complain about waiting for some patch to fix this bug, or crash. He had a valid point. I think PC game companies have made a killing putting one over PC gamers. At first it was rare to get a game that wasn’t working properly, but that has become quite common these days indeed. Much is to blame for the access of the internet, the developers themselves, and also the gamers. Normally I wait a year or longer when a game is released for purchase since I know the bugs will be worked out (usually) and I can download the patches. The speed of today’s internet has made it easier to leave bits and pieces out of games to get fixed later on. I figure they use their initial sales to the gamers (or beta testers) and then fix the game with the money earned. I can’t think of any other business where this is practiced. Imagine buying a car and being told that the moon roof or convertible will come later with a special “kit”. Or you buy a CD from your favorite band but it only has half the tracks. They tell you later on the rest will be available on their website, which you may have to pay for to register on. Why do we do it? How many times will we be burned? What games burned you (aside from Civ 5)?
     
  2. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,886
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    From briefly glossing over what you posted, (I'll go over it in more detail when I have time) it seems you want an immersive (sic) game experience. Sadly, you won't find that in ciV. We can only hope that will happen for Civ VI.

    I feel the same way as you do.
     
  3. Catt_Ironheart

    Catt_Ironheart Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Yeah it is long. Maybe I should have done it in chapters.

    I just want the continuation of greatness from the rest of the line. I feel as if the line great kings was suddenly succeeded by the idiot prince.
     
  4. cephalo

    cephalo Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,058
    Location:
    Missouri, USA
    Good review. I agree with alot of it.
     
  5. rbj2001

    rbj2001 Warlord

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    188
    You're right, Civ5 is crap, and the hitherto loyal fans who bought the game early have been screwed over by Firaxis. Let's just face the fact that no amount of polishing is going to turn this into a great game. We should move on and get some other hobbies.
     
  6. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,273
    Location:
    Shacklyn
    Well said. And if he can't rule over us with the wisdom and statemanship of his successors, at least it's amusing watching him drool on his robe? :lol:
     
  7. DuseCutter

    DuseCutter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Bottom right hand corner, left of the mini-map. Click on the icon that looks like a scroll. Should open up a list of 4 options. It is the last option. You can also turn on/off resource icons, tile yields and recommendations here.
     
  8. Catt_Ironheart

    Catt_Ironheart Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    The worst thing is I spent my video game fund for the quarter :( On the other hand I just got done cleaning the garage and washing the cars. Even set up the weight bench! :strength:

    Yes, but now the realm is run by monkeys: "In einer Stadt voller Affen bin ich der King"

    Well I'll be! Thanks! I suppose next time I play it I will definitely check it out! When is ROM coming out for this game?

    Thanks. Me too! :trophy:
     
  9. katipunero

    katipunero Prince

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    Philippines
    long post, but read through at least more than half of it. :)
     
  10. Craftsman

    Craftsman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    Research Laboratory.
    Spoiler :



    Nice review, Catt_Ironheart. IMO, only someone in denial won't see how plagued by problems Civ5 is at the moment (or forever). :goodjob:


    Yeah! Me too! :king: :D

    Mark my words: this will be the shortest period between two Civilization versions (Civ5 to Civ6) in the history of this video game franchise.
     
  11. isau

    isau Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,061
    I agree with most of what you posted. Thanks for presenting it so thoroughly.
     

Share This Page