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My Own Civilopedia: Bronze Working

Discussion in 'Civ1 - General Discussions' started by Osvaldo Manso, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. Osvaldo Manso

    Osvaldo Manso Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal, Europe
    Hi guys! My last entry on "My Own Civilopedia" is about the technology of Bronze Working.
    I'm looking forward for your comments.


    WHAT SHALL WE SEARCH FOR?

    BRONZE WORKING

    There’s always some debate among veteran players on which technology should be researched in the first place. My personal opinion favours the discovery of Bronze Working. This technology will allow your cities to build the best defensive unit for many centuries to come – the Phalanx.


    The problems with Bronze Working

    No problems at all.


    The good things about Bronze Working

    Besides the direct benefit of becoming able to build Phalanx units, the discovery of Bronze Working allows the future discoveries of Currency (crucial for reaching Trade and then build Caravan units) and Iron Working (key to the discovery of many military and technical advances).

    Furthermore, Bronze Working allows you to construct one of the two cheapest Wonders of the World – the Colossus (the other being Lighthouse).

    The rapid discovery of Bronze Working is even more important when you face competition in your territory – you need to defend your cities properly.

    Last but not the least, Bronze Working has no prerequisite. If your starting location is not that good (by the game standards), you might even start with Bronze Working already discovered.

    Conclusion: If you like to avoid military operations at an early stage and prefer to develop your civilization before engaging in wars, there is no better option to start with than discovering Bronze Working.
     
  2. Mize

    Mize Warlord

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    Essential if you're going for the Colossus, but I would choose the wheel instead if I have aggressive neighbours.
     
  3. Osvaldo Manso

    Osvaldo Manso Warlord

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    Thank you for your comment. I might agree with you but it takes the double of shields to buid a Chariot than it takes to build a Phalanx. In the beginning, cities take too much time to complete units so it's better to use them for builiding units that require 10 or 20 shields like Militia or Phalanx. I usually hold on and deal with aggressive enemies a little later.
     
  4. tupi

    tupi Chieftain

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    Russia
    Well, my thougths about Bronze Working. First 2000 years or so you can develop peacefuly and just city spam (if there's enough space for that, of course). So early in the game you can usually ignore all demands even from Mongols. So I think militias is enough for defence (so AI will not just enter your cities without warning). You also can use militias to block enemy expansion. Without actual war, it doesn't matter what unit is doing this job (it can even be diplomat). Barbarians are much bigger problem in early game. And against barbarians it's better to have Chariots (barbarians are very strong on highter difficulties). Even in worst case scenario you better attack Barbarian legions with your militias instead of trying to defend city with phalanx. Also better strategy overall is to maneur and attack instead of stand still and defend (btw that's why Knights are so useless for human but so useful for AI - as human player, you shoud never bring your Chariots under attack anyway). So I don't think that Phalanx is so important. It's hard to say what is more important: Wheel, Bronze or Alphabet. If you are alone on your island, Alphabet probably is the best. BUT Bronze Working is very important for Currency and Trade, if you want early republic and/or want to build some wonders, esp. Bach. And about Colossus - yep, it's good, but virtually impossible on Emperor. If nobody can build it before you - usually this means that this planet is very harsh to AI and it will be a easy game.
     
  5. Proudhon55

    Proudhon55 Chieftain

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    I prefer to research Bronze Working first for a few reasons:
    -You are blocked from researching it second (it will not appear on the list of techs to research next) so you’ll have to wait until your third tech.
    -On emperor any exploring unit will be toast when unleashing a horde of barbarians (chariot included). It’s important to have fortified phalanx in your cities to defend when that happens. With roads connecting cities you can bring another 1-2 phalanxes from nearby to help defend. Even on emperor, 2-3 fortified phalanxes will typically be enough to defeat the horde.
    -I like to give the barbarian leader’s escort one chance to attack my city so that I can chase down the leader for the $100. Need a phalanx to safely do that.
    -On emperor when you have BW but a rival civ does not, they’ll typically demand it from you. This is a signal to attack them ASAP since you know they’ll only have militia to defend. Without researching BW first you won’t be able to learn this critical piece of intel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  6. Osvaldo Manso

    Osvaldo Manso Warlord

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    Thank you for your very interesting views on Bronze Working.
    I agree with using Militia and Diplomats to block enemy expansion - no need for Phalanxes to do it. However, I think it's better to deal with Barbarians using Phalanx+Catapult in each city - better than Chariots. Besides, Phalanxes are half the price/time of Chariots and Catapults cost the same as Chariots but are stronger on the attack.
    I tottally agree that it's better to attack first than to stand still and rely on defensive units - that's why I think Catapults are so important for defending cities.
    Yes, Alphabet is also great but I would save it for next because it brings no immediate benefit (no unit or building is available by the discovery of Alphabet).


    Thank you for your message - it is very interesting.
    I never noticed that Bronze Working is not available on your second choice of which technology should be researched. I can't remember reading about this as well. Are you sure about this? As I far as I know, the game randomly selects which technologies can be researched, so you might be given the opportunity to research Bronze Working on your second round or not depending entirely on chance.
    I agree with the necessity to use fortified Phalanxes to defend cities from barbarian attacks preferably complemented with a Catapult.
    I also use your tactic of waiting for the barbarian leader to be alone and win that extra money, not only because of the money but because it is an easy and safe way of turning non-veteran units into veteran units.
    Your last point is also very relevant - before establishing an embassy you can tell what that civ is looking for (and does not possess) by listening to what they ask for - I think that's a clever way of using every bit of information to your own benefit.
     
  7. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Emperor

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    Basically what @tupi said, with an additional proviso/thing about huts on emperor. One should think carefully before popping more than the first 1-3 huts you find at the beginning. We nowadays have knowledge of a method of RNG manipulation without reloading... but if you don't want to play rough like that and leave outcomes to chance, then the likely loss of the unit and barb diaspora is not worth the likely set of rewards. In any case... you don't want phalanxes for dealing with barbs on Emp, you want chariots or militia.

    My inclination in a space race is still to delay BW in favor of rex and beelining a government, but it does not matter, because usually one gets this tech incidentally from a gap in the tech availability rotation or an AI, if one is patient.

    Basically picture the completed science screen, because techs are then listed left-to-right by their internal index number (67-Fusion is knocked off the end).

    screenshot-2020-06-12_1646.13.png

    Above Chieftan(?) there is a rotation going on, where one of the three columns is "forbidden." The first forbidden column is the middle one, then R (where Bronze Working is), then L.

    Question: there is always a tech available to research. Is it just the highest entry, or is it the highest entry in each column?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  8. tupi

    tupi Chieftain

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    First 2 tech (by their number: Alphabet is 0, CoL is 1, Currency is 2, A. Theory is 3 etc.) are always in the list regardless of their 'column' (if all prerequisite tech are discovered, of course). After that the applied rule is "if advance number minus amount of already discovered advances is divisible by 3 without remainder, then this tech is not aviable". Advance counter goes from 1 and not from 0 (when civ did not discovered anything before). So if civ has 0 (1 on the counter) discovered advances, then the second column is forbidden (because it's the 1st, if we count from 0: 1-1=0, 4-1=3, 7-1=6 - all divisible by 3). If civ has one advance (2 on the counter), then the 3rd column is forbidden (2-2=0) and so on. Forbidden columns go from left to right and then loop back. Starting technologies are not taken into account for number of civ advances (it's always 1 at the start of the game) - btw that's why Pollution Bug can happen on slightly different Future Tech number. And yes, 'forbidden columns' rule is working on all difficulties above chieftain.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
    Tristan_C likes this.
  9. Osvaldo Manso

    Osvaldo Manso Warlord

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    Thank you for your comment. This is science!
    What do you mean by delaying Bronze Working in favour of rex. What is rex?
     
  10. Osvaldo Manso

    Osvaldo Manso Warlord

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    Thanks! That's very interesting - it means you can know in advance which technologies will be available for research. So, you can plan ahead.
     
  11. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Emperor

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    REX = rapid expansion

    Which in this context means shifting the civ's trade yields from tech to gold, to buy settlers and chariots. The opportunity cost of researching a tech, as such, is the units you missed out on buying.
     

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