My personal apologies

Hygro

soundcloud.com/hygro/
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
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I did two things that were mistakes--mistakes I pushed hard for that our team has accepted mostly without audit

The first was my pushing for the Mayans. Maybe I've clouded my memory but to me I pushed the hardest and made the biggest (though not inherintly the best) case for them. It was after I committed myself to the mayans that I realized the Celts were better (as are many other civs, except the Japanese which were a popular choice here ;)) but was to interested in winning my battle for being the Mayans.

My second mistake was smaller, though akots may find it larger (he was the only one I can remember who thought it was a bad idea), which was spending two turns to move the capitol to the capital. Honestly, if you need a hill for defence at the capitol you have already lost. Second, how useful really was that extra ~560 we got over the course of the game? I'm being serious, it wasn't that necesary. I wasn't president then, but I remember making absolutely certain our first city would be there. If there's any complaint about the first 50 turns it was not DZ's handling of our team as much as it was my insistence of a bad location and convincing others I was right.

Since the beginning of this game I have improved my civ understanding--not that much in single player, but in multiplayer 100 fold. Still, while I don't blame our team's lack of victory on myself at all, I wish to acknowledge even as a seemingly uninvolved player my mistakes. Ultimately my error was more in my interest for the social dynamics and less in actually playing to win. To expound, playing to win would have even made for a more interesting social dynamic which would have improved my experience regardless.

So once again, I'm sorry.
 
Well, we as citizens have voted throughout the turns on polls that changed the fate of this game. Most of us have contributed, such as yourself, ideas that looking back we can see how wrong we were. It's okay that you feel sorry; just don't get depressed over it.
 
On point #1: All I have to say is that wanted the Byzantines :p

On Point #2:

Way back to the Pre-turn I thread:

Emp.Napoleon said:
NOOOO Move down to the Tobaco title! I think that it is a sea spot and will give us a Naval Advantage later in the game. We will soon get alphabet to make those early ships. (can't rember name)

I say that we go for code of laws then if we can reaserch Philospy first we can us our free tech for Republic, a very expencive one. To do this maybe we will have to put science up to 90%-ish. WIth Republic we can tade it with other nations for the techs we missed on the way.

Hygro said:
Garbage. We aren't playing for "later on". Besides that we will have a coastal city by the time we can build ships, the commerce from the gold is far more likely going to help us get code of laws and philosophy before others, than going to the tobacco. But lets face it, if there are any commercial or seafaring civs, they will get philosphy before we finish writing.

I agree the city should be named Fanatazuma. And also, Ankka, the tobocca resource only ads 1 commerce. No food at all.

:p :p

At lest you said sorry. I know of a person who took age into account when taking orders from higher up the totem poll. Needless to say, that person is now off the team.
 
I respect that Hygro, I acknowledged a couple of non-fatal mistakes on my own, and I joined in to turn the tables with an "impossible" mission. I will gametest that in a few.
 
Emp.Napoleon said:
At lest you said sorry.
Emp., I'm going to start taking things you say a little more seriously. For some reason or another I have tended to write you off as a person having the bad oppinion for the sake of me strengthening my own (after all, a group of 10 smart people is dumber than a group of 7 smart people and 3 dumb ones). Maybe it's my interpretation of your delivery but wow I'm a fool.
Emp.Napoleon said:
I know of a person who took age into account when taking orders from higher up the totem poll. Needless to say, that person is now off the team.
1) Who was he or she and why is he or she off the team?
2) Aren't you younger than I?

I realized another error of my part, which was doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING whilst being Military Dude. It has something to do with never opening the save...

@Provolution: thank you.
 
I pushed for the mayans too, Hygro. You were not the only one.

Although I agree that they were a better choice than the Japanese, anyway... we would never have gotten a GA if we were them ;)
 
Hygro said:
1) Who was he or she and why is he or she off the team?
magnusmarcus. He requested in the citizen registry thread to be removed from the team's roster. A little war scared him away methinks... :shakehead
Hygro said:
2) Aren't you younger than I?
Indeed he is.
 
Hygro - No need to beat yourself up over the way this game started. We all had a hand in it, and if I'm not mistaken I went along with the spot for Fanatazuma.

As far as the Mayans go, well we can't kill ourselves with 20/20 hindsight. The Jav Thrower would have come in more handy if we not so far from the nearest civ, but this was not taken into consideration.

If anyone is guilty of anything, it is me --- for leaving you guys in the lurch around turn 45. I say this not because of my great skill, but because of the continuity I brought to the team. I know you guys were left hanging for awhile, and it was the 30 or so turns before akots took over that probably hurt us the most.

At least we have something to build on for next game. Let's make sure to get a jump on Civ4 when it comes out. We'lll be back! :ninja:
 
Yes, while I'm fine with joining CDZ for round 2, for civ4 I will be back with civfanatics!

In all we greatly improved from t he MSDG
 
Hygro said:
In all we greatly improved from t he MSDG
Hear hear! The MSDG was a valuable learning experience for this game. If we play another Civ III site PBEM game, I'm sure we can put up an even greater challenge!
 
Glad to see a good After-action Report going on. This is standard US Military procedure and will make the next IDG game that CFC enters be even more competitive. It is really a shame that our opponents decided who was the stronger just as we were starting to turn the tables on who was actually the strongest. We were 1 turn away from hooking up iron to the mainland (via harbor) and 1 turn away from discovering horses!

Well...live and learn (or die and learn as this case might be). As for whether or not the JT would have been useful: no, it is only useful in games with computer players. The human players all know that the JT can enslave so they do their damndest to ensure that the fewest slaves possible are garnered by the Mayans. This is not something intuitive, it has to be seen to be experienced, so only those who played lots of only-human games would know this.

I have not decided if I will join another team, but I will definately be willing to play with you guys if CFC enters another IDG.
 
When 3 teams have Gallics, MWs, and Immortals, there's really not much you can do. Your only hope might actually be Legions, and even they're slow, like Immortals.


Also, I've never seen any player in a MP game waste 2 turns on building a city. Maybe 1 (and they get laughed at. ;)), but not 2. Reason? The other team gets the first warrior out quicker, and you have no defense.

We also seemed to have too many types of units (warriors, horsemen, swords, etc.). In MP games, players like to attack with a huge stack of 1 type of unit.

Defenses - This isn't SP folks. Cities need to be close to each other so that you can quickly defend with atleast 8-10 units, plus catapults/trebuchets.
 
Rcoutme, were we really one turn away from both? How depressing.

Possibly most frustrating is that you've been saying that all along, Chieftess :p

Chieftess, I have one argument with what you said and that is the "players like to have stacks of one monster" clause. That's certainly true playing online where time is of the essence, but is it so important when you have all the time in the world to think and plan (and making sure your enemies have to consider more than one defensive strategy).
 
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