My prince game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Evil Beejeebers, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Evil Beejeebers

    Evil Beejeebers Warlord

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    Hi, boys and girls

    Yesterday I played a noble game and I was satisfied with how it went, so now I want to start playing most of my games at prince. I am going to upload a save and a screen shot of the start.

    map type: Fractal, size: Standard, AI: Standard, Water: 60%

    I am going to make save every 20 turns for the 1st 100 turns, Then I will make a save every 50 turns. I am going to try and post screens to make it a little more colourful.

    I will play as Louis and I am going to be quite pragmatic with this game turtling and spamming wonders with the option of going to space/ cultural victory. I am going to try and use spies to keep the ai down. If anyone has any pointers or advice I would love to hear from you.

    Spoiler :
     

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  2. Evil Beejeebers

    Evil Beejeebers Warlord

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    Turn 20

    well first update. I feel this is going to be a lonely island maybe. what happened of the last twenty turns I got mysticism from a hut on turn two and I got bronze working on turn 20. I am thinking of making Paris into a commerce type city and I will cottage all the river tiles. and feed my citizens using the clam. I have again got lucky by having lots of bronze.

    my build order is worker, worker, warrior, settler, fishing boat. and I am going to tech fishing just now. I am not sure where to place my next city.

    Spoiler :
    bronze working oh yeah.

    Spoiler :
    the lay of the land
     

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  3. MrKlew

    MrKlew Warlord

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    I'm certainly no expert, I'm only a noble player myself. But it seems to me the build order worker > worker > settler means an awfully long time with no city growth. Personally, I'd research fishing and after the 1st worker insert a workboat or 2 to get the seafood online and let the city grow.

    A second city between the fish and copper looks good. If you want to do some wonder building a city south of the stone that can share the clams looks good too. Of course once you get ironworking the double gems and sugar will be nice too.
     
  4. Evil Beejeebers

    Evil Beejeebers Warlord

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    Yeah I built the city south of the stone first and the one you recommended is where I will build my 3rd city. it is an Island and those 3 sites look like my key cities.

    I think two workers and a settler with a warrior thrown in somewhere is a faster than letting the city grow, I have done that for my last 2 games and you save about 5-10 turns on founding your second city. I have two cities a two warriors two workers and one fishing boat on turn 40. I think if you don't let the city grow you get two workers and a settler on turn 36 roughly but when you let it grow it is in the 40's for the settler. if you have the bug mod it has a lot of good opening builds etc in the guides section.



    I doubt I will win this game there is just not enough land. I am going for sailing now and I hope to build the great lighthouse.
     

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  5. Evil Beejeebers

    Evil Beejeebers Warlord

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    I missed turn 60 out as nothing of not had developed since then. and went straight to turn 80 and Lyons has been founded.
    Spoiler :
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=318271&stc=1&d=1333718570


    I got my great light house and the oracle. I chose codes of laws as my free tech strange I know, but I wanted a religion and caste system at some stage, going for the mids now I think and I will probably go with representation and lots of artists.
     

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  6. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    I'd be tempted to make Paris a GM pump. Its kinda production-poor to be a wonderhouse.

    80 turns seems like a long time to only have 3 cities. Might wanna reconsider that opening sequence of units.

    I dunno, I'd personally abandon a start like this when moving up a level. Very little land for you to occupy, very few happiness resources... Your best bet here is going to be beelining optics to meet the rest of the world, but by then they'll have all polarized into a couple of religious groups and all hate you...
     
  7. Silverbow

    Silverbow Prince

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    I played a bit, about the map:
    Spoiler :
    The worst problem of the map is the totally silly starting locations. Cathy starts in middle of by far largest landmass, with 3 wimps (Hammy, Gandhi, Huayna) starting on the periphery, and will almost certainly roll them over. Hannibal and Giggles are stuck in ridiculous isolated polar hell, making your start look absolutely awesome in comparison. You can win AP cheese, culture, or conquest/dom if you go for Astro and invade Cathy ASAP. Otherwise you'll lose diplo or sth while going to space. :lol:
     
  8. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    The problem is that 2 workers-> settler is reliant on chopping to get your first settler out fast, without the pop to work your resource tiles every city after the first (at most second) will be later than if you grew to size 3-4 by building a couple of warriors after the worker. Those warriors also help you explore, fogbust and escort those settlers.
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    GHP is right. What you do is nerf things longer term. I worker>worker opening is not always bad though, especially if you have the right tech combination and a strong food resource. Not sure here when fishing should be your first tech as it is your only food. Holding your city at one pop as long as you have is not good at all. Also, you will still be quite small at the point you get in Writing and get a Library.

    Iso start are tricky, but if you play it right you can handle it easily on prince. Sounds like you are going culture (not sure what you mean by space/culture). Culture can be a good safe play in ISO. The only issue, especially on higher levels is getting enough religions.

    In most ISO games I would use an early Astro bulb ploy, but if going culture you may not need it.

    I really like Orleans 3E of Paris. The overlap allows sharing of food and hammer resources, as well cottage tag teaming. Furthermore, it allows for more cities East of Paris. The current spot has limited that considerably.

    Make sure you consider worker management more carefully as you move up levels. It really is quite important to get an edge. Building useless roads before improvements or chops is generally not the best course of action.

    Edit: Oh..and if you have stone or IND, in this case both, Mids is a very good wonder in ISO.
     
  10. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    This is just an odd map. Seafood-only start with an extremely heavily forested BFC and no Fishing or Mining in starting techs. Small-ish isolated island, and weird - the resources are hardly convenient ones to work with, and the lay of the land and distribution of them makes choosing your city sites and tech path a pain. Catherine gets a ridiculously nice amount of land and pushover neighbors, while the other AIs are all basically screwed - play this a ten times with another AI in place of the human, and I bet Catherine wins 9 of them. Stone and Industrious.

    Here's a tip about isolated starts: once you realize you are isolated, you need to explore your island fully, then plan out the location of every one of your cities (and what order you'll be settling them in). Above all else, make sure you can get at least 6 cities squeezed in - that's an important breakpoint for a lot of things (6 theaters for Globe, 6 universities for Oxford, 6 temples for 2 Cathedrals...). It's generally better to have 4 really good cities and two lousy cities than to have 5 really good cities but not have a sixth city at all.
     
  11. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    This is such a horrible start that I'm tempted to give it a try just to see how it goes. Given the circumstances--and moving up a level in particular--I'd recommend the OP re-roll the map. I didn't think the Noble to Prince transition was that tough, but that doesn't mean you should kill yourself over it.
     
  12. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Not a bad start really...
    Spoiler :
    I mean we have at least 6 not bad cities, no need to worry about barbs, and that magnificent stone with IND.
     

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  13. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    My judgment of how bad this really was, admittedly, was based on reading what other people were saying.

    I'd say it was challenging for Prince level, but still not too bad altogether.

    Spoiler :
    I'm curious to know how people dotmapped this. Here's what I did:



    ...I just now noticed that unimproved tile west of Paris. Crap. Ah well. I went with Paris as the GP farm and lower-tier unit pump; Lyons as the Bureau cap; Orleans and Reims for production; Marseilles for a little of everything (mostly building units); Lyons for commerce; and Chartres just to make sure every inch of land was exploited.

    Tech rate in the early game was super-fast thanks to lots of green land and a 'Mids/Great Lighthouse-fueled economy. Beelined Astronomy with the goal of exporting a Mace/Treb war. You can play nice on this map and probably do pretty well, but after hearing Tales of a Raging Catherine, I really wanted to go military here.

    I think going straight for Catherine will be a popular move on this map since she's the biggest threat, but really, I wanted a quick first war to get promotions in order and secure the strategic resources I was missing, so I wiped out Hannibal and Gilgamesh first. Their land sucked, but it paid for itself by building Wealth, so whatever. With those two wiped out (and Steel earned from Lib right around 1000 AD), Trebs were upgraded to Cannons and shipped off to raise some Cain on the big continent and get the vassal snowball rolling. Hammy was first and got his cities back, and during the war Cathy got a capitulation from Gandhi. Luckily Gandhi had just a couple of cities left, so breaking him of the arrangement was pretty straightforward. Since Huayna was pretty much a nonfactor (his hilly capital is hilarious, though!), it was down to just me and Cathy.

    It was a great war, too. I had Rifles and Cannons by the time the war was on, but I'd taken it easy on production and didn't worry about drafting and whipping since I had the edge, and she made me pay for it--her tech was behind, but she had built about umpteen gazillion Knights and Trebs. Fortunately, Cavalry are great and were starting to flow in by the time her stack had done its damage (and subsequently gotten wiped out), so the war was bloody but quick.

    So with military power Cathy and secondary tech leaders Gandhi and Hammy on my side, Huayna wasn't a factor at all. Two cities down, something like thirty Caravels sunk to the ocean floor (SERIOUSLY), and game over in 1800.

    So basically, I saved the war with Cathy for the end and did just fine, but she made me pay for it. The easiest path to strategic resources is through Hannibal and Gilgamesh, though--their land sucks, but it paid for itself in Cannon and Cavalry.
     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    ahh....I like your city placement Oz....basically what I was saying to the OP
     
  15. ABigCivFan

    ABigCivFan Emperor

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    Turn 80

    Spoiler :


    quickly explored the land, isolated with plenty of seafood.

    Tech went: Fishing-mining-bw-pottery(for granary and whipping)-writing (quick library)-sailing-oralce to COL (need religion)-IW (clear gem)-Organized religion

    Capital is food rich, good for whipping early, so went for BW,pottery,sailing early for optimal whipping

    Plan is to building GLH, Pyrimaid, GL and set the capital up as a super GP and Science city. Got spot for 6 decent cities, giving up a fish though. Prob will run heavy representation scientists for fast research.

    4 city atm. 1 more inland, and 1 more to claim the clam to the far east.

     
  16. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    ~400 AD

    Spoiler :
    Since the capital has such nice production with wonders, I figured Organized Religion was gonna help even more. Founded Christianity, and the religion helps quite a bit. And the AP we go... but I won't AP cheese. And lol, a prophet bulbing Civil Service was kinda funny. I really should have gone optics at this point, but I choose to Lib Astronomy.





    Oy... well that was embarrassing. 1949 Domination >.> I was too much in a rush to end the game and it wouldn't...

    Spoiler :

    I forgot that you can't build frigates without iron, so I simply had to overwhelm them with rifles and later infantry.

    And then Catherine wastes 200 years of my time because she thinks she's doing fine on her own after losing more than half of her cities, but that little POS gandhi vassal with 1 city. She finally gave in but it was already 1900 and I burned like a couple of her cities down. Honestly, I should have simply burned every city. ;)

    Cupac was more cooperative as he gave up quickly. Apparently he captured a city of mines somewhere, but I never found out which one and didn't care anyways.





    Suggestions for a replay: Build a city to the NW, get globe theater and draft for more rifles.


    Overall, I didn't really play this game very at all. It all went downhill after I picked that medicine thing in 2000 BC and it failed. I also could have fit another city. And the cottages were sort of a waste... should have focused on food and specialists.
     

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  17. learner gamer

    learner gamer King

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    Played a quick shadow.

    Spoiler :
    Eventually nabbed a culture victory in 1826. However, I’ve no doubt it’s entirely possible to get there in the 1700’s by simply raising the culture slider earlier than I did (at communism). The timing was also delayed by some shenanigans from the RNG, which decided that my first four GPs would be 2 GProphets (from The Oracle) and 2 GMs (from TGLH), d’oh!

    IMHO, the key was to recognise that I was going to be DoW’d by Cathy and her Buddhist tag team (which was about to unfold some 50 turns from victory) and have teched all the way to combustion to use oil (revealed by sci meth) and build destroyers. (NB: I also upgraded a fair few privateers - for which there was a good role this game - to destroyers as well.) That enabled me to actually DoW her as her armada approached and wipe her - and her allies - stacks out before they had a chance to land.


    Re: dotmap / OP’s 2nd city.
    Spoiler :
    FWIW, I placed a city right where the OP settled Orleans and ignored 3E of Paris – because I wanted to leave Paris plenty of food that could be used to feed artist specialists.

    That said, if anything, I’d be inclined to question why Orleans was settled in that location so early. IMHO, cities 2 and 3 are best settled (i) for the fish / copper / rice site (ie. where EB settled Lyons) and (ii) 1W of the southern gems to nab (farmed) sugar / double gems. FWIW, I settled the double gems site as city #2 and went early IW to provide some much needed early commerce and a happy cap boost.
     
  18. Saxif

    Saxif Chieftain

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    @Archon. I can't believe you got to 1942 in less than 2 hours! I got to up my game!
     
  19. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    But I paid the price-- that game was so poorly managed so it took til that date to win. :lol: I went immediately from one war to the next... bad call. Had I actually waited to group up my forces it would have a better win date.

    Well, honestly, the game was won a while back but they just wouldn't surrender, leading me to just hit end turn a lot.
     
  20. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    OP initial build sequence sub-optimal. 2 workers with only 1 farmable tile (4 :food: is decent, but nothing else to do until BW for chop) isn't advisable. 1 worker would do while researching fishing then to BW for chop/whip ability while building work boat. Then a couple warriors for fog busting & fortify in capital. Perhaps then, chop another worker and go into a settler / whip it out overflow into another wb.

    With a start like this, avoiding growth for 2 workers when you can only really improve 1 tile (besides putting roads down on every tile in sight) and then late work boat seems very sub-optimal.
     

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