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My proposal for a new leader for Germany

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Azzebox, May 25, 2020.

  1. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    And yet their civilization is not defined by state status but by culture, just like every other civilization in the game. Civilizations transcend states, and it's partially why I've been so annoyed by the inclusion of states like Australia and Canada.
     
  2. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Because Genghis Khan's negative reputation is highly overstated, not to mention his victims aren't still alive, not to mention he didn't live in a time when it's generally agreed he should have known better?
     
  3. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Konrad Adenauer would fit the big personality box of civ6 and he would not be a Nazi... if you want a modern leader.
     
  4. Xisuthrus

    Xisuthrus Chieftain

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    As an alternative to Bismarck leading Germany, Wilhelm I could be a leader, with his Leader Ability giving him Bismarck as a powerful Unique Governor.
     
  5. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    If Haiti become a CIV, Haiti can have the Polish Troop also.
     
  6. Azzebox

    Azzebox Chieftain

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    Great idea !
     
  7. Steadyzz

    Steadyzz Chieftain

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    Im sorry and take this in the best way you can. I'm not sure if you know what annexing in civ 6 is but thats when you completely take a city. Also that bonus is just very OP and unbalanced make it +3 combat strength for casus belli and +5 for surprise. Then let him get +1 combat strength for each strategic resource in the city you are attacking.
     
  8. Azzebox

    Azzebox Chieftain

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    I don't think this bonus is OP at all. First of all, because annexing your own city-states is unprofitable, so declaring a war just so that your city-state is at war and in order to be able to annex it is not a good idea, better to keep the suzerain benefits. All the complexity of the bonus will be to annex the city-states of others by declaring war on the right people. However, for that, it is necessary to have a good diplomatic visibility to be aware of all the wars, and to know skillfully to declare war on the enemies of the city-states close to you. This will therefore create a new mechanic for Bismarck's opponents, who will have to think carefully before declaring war on anyone, for fear of losing their city-states. Thus, against beginners and belligerent players, this bonus will be very powerful, but against experienced players who take into account the presence of Bismarck in the game, it will be much less effective. Indeed, it is enough not to declare war at all, or to arrange to have city-states far from Bismarck or to declare war on an ally of Bismarck so that he cannot join your war and annex your city states. So although this is strong, there are corresponding answers to be provided that the best players will know how to use.
     
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  9. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Frederick, if he were in the game, would definitely be the leader of Germany. And he'd be a good choice for it - German civilization is not limited to the country named Germany, and its leaders are not limited to people who were political leaders of Germany. That's been clear throughout the history of Civ.

    BUT...

    If we're going to have two leaders with the same name, we MIGHT want to at least not have them lead the same civ?
     
  10. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    I also don't like this interpretations of Germany can be apllied as Frederick Barbarrosa king of the 1st Reich, is the same used by Hitler to make the 3rd Reich, he also recognize Frederick Barbarrosa as a king in the 1st reich.
    Also,it is kind of white privilege to have this unique interpretation of Germany history while other nations don't have. Just thing how odd would be a civilization of Guarani lead by Solano Lópes? But by Paraguayans historians it can be.
     
  11. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    What are you talking about now?

    For one thing, civilization has never limited itself to leaders of the unified civilization. Even putting aside people who were not formally leader (and their words are backed with nuclear weapons) of their civilizations, we've had repeated cases of civilizations led by someone who really only led one city-state of that civilization. Lady Six Sky didn't lead all of the Maya. She led one of the major Mayan city-states (Naranjo), but she wasn't ruler of the Mayans. But she was an important leader within Mayan civilization, which is the qualifier here (Pericles and Gorgo are the same). So it's not "unique interpretation of Germany" or "White Privilege" - it's the fact that the game has a pretty clear rule that a civilization is not the same as a country. Pacal, Pericles and Gorgo all come under the same rule.

    For another, yes, the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (that was the full name for a large part of its history) was, in fact, part of German civilization, and it's not just Hitler making ridiculous claim.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  12. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    The same could be said for Seondeok, who lead only Silla, not all of Korea.
     
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  13. The Civs 6

    The Civs 6 Prince

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    Can you please use an example that someone outside of a 300 level university class on contemporary South American history would know anything about?

    And the above discussion on Lady Six Sky/Seondeok thoroughly discredit your inflammatory remarks about the nature of this discourse. If anything, blobbing Germany as the HRE is giving a European civ the blobbing treatment that non-western civs usually get.

    As for Bismarck, he is a pretty glaring omission. He was without a doubt the most globally important head of state after Abraham Lincoln and before World War 1 (at least). He was the central figure in the creation of the German nation. He was also a very effective leader, and despite having a lot of the negatives of late-stage imperialism on his shoulders, his diplomatic expertise (mostly) averted many unnecessary deaths. Finally, it would be a chance to represent Germany at arguably the absolute zenith of its political importance and power (except for Charlemagne's creation of the HRE, but can you really call that Germany?).

    So overall, if we are going to add a German alt. leader, it 100% should be Bismarck. A guy with a strange fascination for tall dudes, other HRE emperors, a modern lady, and a guy with a funny moustache all pale in comparison.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
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  14. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    He's free to use whatever examples he wants. At worst you can google it up instead of acting like anything you don't know about isn't worth talking about.

    Bismarck, along with Charlemagne (who would be a leader for both France and Germany) and the two Fredericks are indeed the top german selections. Although you could make a case an HRE Habsburg should be rounding out the list too - I'm just not quite sure which.
     
  15. The Civs 6

    The Civs 6 Prince

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    Yes and I am free to question it as well. And yes, my critical attitudes stems from being a little tired of inflammatory accusations like "white privilege" and ostentatiously use of extremely obscure South American political material, as if it were comparable or relevant to the subject at hand.

    Again, taking this back to the topic at hand, I just wonder about going with Merkel. She represents an entirely different and positive side of Germany. She is not a very controversial world leader, although she is contemporary. She sort of stands in as a representative of the EU, or at least of the EU era of Europe, which sort of should be represented somehow in the game.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  16. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I've seen Maria Theresa suggested as well.
    Although I would prefer an actual Austrian civ with her as leader, at the same time I could see her as an alternate German leader considering Germany in this game is more HRE inspired. She could give them a diplomatic/cultural approach.
    Plus she could possibly lead Hungary too.

    Considering Merkel is alive I don't think she should even be considered.
    I mean Maria Theresa was uniting Europe before the EU. :mischief:
     
  17. The Civs 6

    The Civs 6 Prince

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    Maria Theresa unified Europe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Austrian_Succession
     
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  18. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    The problem with Austria is that for most of its history it was part of the German nation - ethnically, linguistically and politically German. In fact, most of its most famous leaders led (as Holy Roman Emperors) all of Germany.

    Not to say we can't have Austria, but its leader should probably be one of the pre-Emperorship Archduke or one of the post-Napoleonic Austro Hungarian Emperors. Or maybe Maria Theresa, since the Empire technically went to her husband, not her, but that was a bit of a legal fiction.
     
  19. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    What about Metternich?
     
  20. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    I didn't realize he was chancellor. Yes, that would be a very reasonable choice for a pure Austrian civ.
     

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