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My proposal for a new leader for Germany

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Azzebox, May 25, 2020.

  1. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    It was more of a joke considering her and the members House of Hapsburg were all involved with European royalty throughout history.

    I think it depends on the design of the German civ.
    In Civ 6 I think it might be appropriate for an leader from Austria considering it is HRE based.
    If they designed a civ with uniques and abilities around Prussia/Modern Germany I think Austria could warrant a different civ.
     
  2. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    That is the privilege Germany have, even before there is a Germany nation they can have option for leaders, but use the same logistic to Guarani is (somewhere so undercovered history).

    ANd insn't the same thing of Maya or Greeks, they have a strong position in history book and a game as Civilizatikon need to put them somehow in this game, as a lack of united Maya or Greek leader they choice a City State Leader. But Germany have the SECOND reich to be the reich where Germany start to be a thing, don't need to jump in a Nazi way of understand the world to choice a leader of the first reich. This is very white privlegious.
     
  3. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Germany is far older as a civilization than it is as a state. The Holy Roman Empire was German (well, mostly--it also included some Slavs, Balts, and Romance-speakers). Besides, Kaiser Wilhelm I wasn't particularly active as a ruler, and Kaiser Wilhelm II was as stupid as he was charismatic. The latter might be in his favor, but the former certainly isn't. That leaves Bismarck, who has certainly merited his numerous inclusions but hardly deserves to be the sole voice of the German people in perpetuity. There are plenty of interesting Holy Roman Emperors, and I for one hope the series continues to explore them.
     
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    At the same time ignoring the contributions of the HRE in both European and World history is disingenuous as well.

    The German people existed before 1871, and funny enough were united under Barbarossa, and deserve to be represented sometimes even though that would make Austria getting in a lot easier. :mischief:
     
  5. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Henry the Lion would lament that he wasn't the one to unite them, but who cares. He's just an old man who tells his tales to any passing strangers. :mischief: What harm could he possibly do?
     
  6. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation Henri. It says it. Right in (one of) the name(s). German Nation. There's no third reich propaganda involved. The Holy Roman Empire was the German Empire.

    And as to white privilege: India, the country, only exist since 1947 - yet Chandragupta of the Maurya empire, who died near 2300 years ago is one of their leaders. So apparently it's not just whIte countries that get this exception. Because India, the civilization, is thousands of years old, and the modern republic and the Mauryas are different incarnations of the same civilization. The same applies to Germany; ethnically and culturally. None of these changes (except the British Raj) represent foreign conquest and colonization.

    And that's the difference from Guarani-Paraguay and others. In all those cases you have a foreign conqueror taking over the land of another culture. The ethnic and cultural continuity is lost in the process. Paraguy is a nation founded by a people culturally fundamentally different from Guaranis.
     
  7. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Don't forget China! They had Mao Zedong and Qin Shi Huang both as Leaders in Civ 4.
     
  8. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    No they isn't. They still speaking the Guarani leanguage and is possible to understand Paraguay as modern Guarani state who survive the conquest of Spaniards.
     
  9. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    You can also use that logic to apply to the Germans as well. Throughout history, they still spoke the German language and followed German culture, no matter what state they were in or who conquered them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  10. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Uh. I did NOT know Guarani was in fact the primary language of Paraguay (90% of the population, official language; Spanish is behind at 87%, also official language). That's certainly a unique situation for the Americas, and may have to be treated differently.

    On the other hand, there's still a foreign conquest and the imposition of foreign culture elements (those Paraguayan leaders don't have Guarani names, certainly).

    It's not quite as clear as Germany (which does not have that kind of conquest in its history), but I would say given the information available that yes, I could accept considering Paraguay and Guarani to both be separate itterations of the same civilization. Though I would probably want the Guarani leader to have a Guarani name if the civ is called "Guarani".
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  11. The Civs 6

    The Civs 6 Prince

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    That is a weak sauce argument, even for your standards
     
  12. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Why not just have the Guarini as a civ considering the people and language existed outside the borders of just modern day Paraguay, which is as much a Spanish speaking/influenced country as it is a Guarini state?

    The Guarini lived in what is today Bolivia, Uruguay, Argentina and Brazil too.
     
  13. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    There are Germans living outside Germany too, and some other Germans have other civs as Neederlands. If Frederick Barbarosa is already king of all Germany, why the Dutch have their own civ? Moderator Action: Racial comment deleted. Please keep racialism out of these forums. Browd
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

    Okay, I agree is cooler the name of the Civilization be Guarani, but some of Unique Features can be also from Paraguayan history, as the units from Paraguayan war or the Airplanes used in the war against Bolivia. This interpretation of Guarani history fit very well among Paraguayans historians but this community is more Germanic would disagree with me for sure.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2021
  14. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Oh no... You are going to make a lot of Dutch very... "unhappy", to put it lightly. And besides, the Dutch have a very interesting culture of their own and left their own mark on the world. The Dutch East India Company is part of that mark.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2021
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  15. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    They are unique as Bavarians are also unique, and at the time of Frederick Barbarrosa they was under the Holly Roman Empire.
     
  16. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    But they later won their independence from the Germans and went on to found a Colonial, Maritime, and Trading Empire on par with Golden Age Portugal.

    I agree with you about the Bavarians, though, Civ can certainly survive without them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  17. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    The Dutch aren't German, and the Dutch weren't even part of the Holy Roman Empire. They were part of Burgundy until Burgundy sold them to Spain (and yes, the Habsburgs ruled both, but the territories were kept separate because of inheritance laws and the electoral nature of the HRE). Not to mention that the Dutch were the most powerful naval and financial powerhouse in Europe until England and France put aside their own disagreements (and note that this was while religious wars were still burning in Europe and that England is Protestant and France is Catholic) to take down the Netherlands. The Dutch lost their colonies, but they still remained a financial powerhouse despite the best efforts of their competitors. On top of all of that, the overwhelming bulk of modern Protestants can trace their theological lineage to the Netherlands, whether they are Calvinist or not (Lutherans being the major exception). Saying including the Dutch is "white privilege" is just showing an ignorance of history.
     
  18. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    the national anthem of the Dutch say they are Germany. A Dutch guy tell me that when I live in Germany.
     
  19. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    But the reality is that they are not German. They are Dutch.
     
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  20. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    There is no such line in "Het Wilhelmus." He may have been saying that Dutch/Deutch are cognate, but that does not make them the same.
     

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