Daftpanzer
canonically ambiguous
Ive been looking for any civ3 space/sci fi / MoO type mods for civ3, ive found the space-sea terrain and the star wars mod, they look cool but not really the full civ-in-space kind of mod that id like to see 
Im new to civ3 modding, but ive had a few years experience with civ2 fiddling and creating stuff or other games. Ive decided to have a go at a amatuer space-style mod thing for civ3 version 1.29 (not PTW). The MoO scenario for civ2 was quite fun, but it had some serious flaws IMO (cities could be built anywhere in space, star systems were kind of wierd etc). Ive found that Civ3 actually offers lots of possibilities for a space mod (so much for being worse than civ2
)
Why create a space mod for civ3? why not just play a space strategy game? I dont know, maybe i am demented, but i find creating and modding stuff is fun, and playing a familar game, but differently, is kinda cool.
These are my ideas... maybe somebody could tell me what they think?
--------------------------------
Idea #1 - I want to have space as plains/grassland, NOT sea (as most people might expect would be best). I think there are potential A.I issues with loads of little 1-square 'planet/star system' islands in a 'space' ocean (although, i havent actually tested this).
Also, fighting a war with 'space' ships and marine-style invasion forces could get tedious (constant loading/unloading etc). Although it would be cool to have both ground and space forces, ground units would only ever defend a planet from enemy marines or attack as marines themselves, which could get boring.
'Space' ships could be made too weak to damage ground units except with bombard attacks, and then you need your marines to actually take the planet, which could work well. But i think the bottom line is, although strong ground defences enable a planet to hold out longer, whoever has spaceship superiority will win. IMO it doesnt seem to make much sense to have seperate ground and space units.
Also, as im not a very good at making graphics for all the combinations of coasts, i cant really change the complex land/sea/coast graphics to space graphics.
IMO the advantages of space-as-land are:
'hyperspace beacon' roads can be built in space to connect your cities, which would allow trade routes etc without ALWAYS having to build a 'space'harbour. This also gives the defender an advantage in moving his forces in his territory, which seems fair.
The cultural borders will probably work better this way too. Also, if all units are ground units, then your space forces can fortify at strategic postions in space. (As i understand, fortify for sea units is a 'hold position' order only, which doesnt give a defensive bonus if attacked)
IMO Fighting with ships only (which can catpure and garrison planets/cities) would be easier and more fun to play. Perhaps some kind of immobile unit could represent tough planetary/system defences, if the A.I could handle it.
Oh yeah, air units could still work IMO - nimble space fighters/gunships that can evade the fire of heavy ships and bomb targets or do recon, and dogfight each other [hopefully its possible to have land units as carriers?]
LEADERS/ARMIES - A major point, this requires land combat. IMO it would be cool to have space fleets, and you get leaders from space combat rather than marines attacking planets.
COLONISATION - One unit can do it all, you dont need to have a transport and a separate colonist unit. Also the A.I would probably like this better
Idea #1b - Have 'Star' terrain to represent a whole star system, where stars are the only squares where cities can be built (one of the cool things with the latest patch). Having individual planets taking up a square each would be cool, but it might get a bit strange on the map, and the number of terrain types is very limited. I have another idea for planets anyway.
With plains as space, terrain such as forests, mountains and hills - any type of terrain graphic that can go above the diamond area of the square, and not disturb nearby terrain types when placed - can be used as the various star system types - red giant, yellow star, blue star, binary etc.
Not a great deal of variety is allowed this way, but only 4 or 5 types of star should work, and give the map a nice varied galaxy look. Since planets affect the resource outputs of the system and not so much the star (see below) it doesnt matter really what the star type is.
Idea # 2 - NO city graphics, excpet maybe a symbol similar to the harbour/airport symbols to go above a star. So you have the star with the city title bar below it if it is colonised. Ive tried this and it looks quite good IMO.
Idea #3 - Planets as BONUS RESOURCES (thanks to civ3!) These can be placed NEXT to a star, maybe with the graphics for the planet resources done off-centre so that the planets appear to be closer to the star and not spread-out. IMO this is a nice way of doing it, because as i understand, the number of resources is not fixed in the rules (+ the resources graphics file can be expanded by adding extra rows). So any number of different planet types can be added, completely unlimited by the number of different terrain types used by the game.
E.G. Terran planets give LOTS of food, allowing the population of that system to grow large. Barren mineral-rich worlds give lots of shields for that system, but not much food. Since only 1 worker is needed to work the planet, it doesnt mean that a size 3 city/system cant have 2X the production of a size 10 farming system.
I tired having planet resources ON the star/city squares, but this didnt work since any food bonuses are ignored and the city square produces the standard 2 or whatever.
Idea #4 Luxury/Strategic resources - these can happily be placed ON the stars, giving maybe every system a certain resource or luxury to the owner. The graphics could be changed to look as if they're above and/or to the side of a star, not in the middile as it looks now.
----------------------------------
I think theres lots of new possibilites with civ3, such as unique units for each civ /alien race (i acutally have lots of ideas for different aliens). Or resources like special crystals or heavy alloys that you need to build certain ships and buildings - tons of possibities!
If youre wondering if the A.I can work on something like this, well i tried it on a custom made map and the A.I kicked my ass! It DOES realise that star squares are important and they where you build cities. Ive seen the A.I place defensive units on unclaimed stars, waiting for a settler to arrive. Ive had some problems with wokers, the A.I doesnt seem to want to build roads (maybe because i removed the irrigate.mining commands?).
Ive tested it with normal units which is a bit wierd (as you see in the pic). I can make basic units with direction only (no anim) with 3D MAX. A custom tech tree and buildings etc. will be the most difficult thing, maybe meaning this mod will never work. As for a custom civlopedia -
Ok, Thanks for reading this! (Wow, i spammed a lot). Any feedback/suggestions or any links to other space/sci-fi mods would be much appreciated (i know they must be out there!).
Im new to civ3 modding, but ive had a few years experience with civ2 fiddling and creating stuff or other games. Ive decided to have a go at a amatuer space-style mod thing for civ3 version 1.29 (not PTW). The MoO scenario for civ2 was quite fun, but it had some serious flaws IMO (cities could be built anywhere in space, star systems were kind of wierd etc). Ive found that Civ3 actually offers lots of possibilities for a space mod (so much for being worse than civ2
)Why create a space mod for civ3? why not just play a space strategy game? I dont know, maybe i am demented, but i find creating and modding stuff is fun, and playing a familar game, but differently, is kinda cool.
These are my ideas... maybe somebody could tell me what they think?
--------------------------------
Idea #1 - I want to have space as plains/grassland, NOT sea (as most people might expect would be best). I think there are potential A.I issues with loads of little 1-square 'planet/star system' islands in a 'space' ocean (although, i havent actually tested this).
Also, fighting a war with 'space' ships and marine-style invasion forces could get tedious (constant loading/unloading etc). Although it would be cool to have both ground and space forces, ground units would only ever defend a planet from enemy marines or attack as marines themselves, which could get boring.
'Space' ships could be made too weak to damage ground units except with bombard attacks, and then you need your marines to actually take the planet, which could work well. But i think the bottom line is, although strong ground defences enable a planet to hold out longer, whoever has spaceship superiority will win. IMO it doesnt seem to make much sense to have seperate ground and space units.
Also, as im not a very good at making graphics for all the combinations of coasts, i cant really change the complex land/sea/coast graphics to space graphics.
IMO the advantages of space-as-land are:
'hyperspace beacon' roads can be built in space to connect your cities, which would allow trade routes etc without ALWAYS having to build a 'space'harbour. This also gives the defender an advantage in moving his forces in his territory, which seems fair.
The cultural borders will probably work better this way too. Also, if all units are ground units, then your space forces can fortify at strategic postions in space. (As i understand, fortify for sea units is a 'hold position' order only, which doesnt give a defensive bonus if attacked)
IMO Fighting with ships only (which can catpure and garrison planets/cities) would be easier and more fun to play. Perhaps some kind of immobile unit could represent tough planetary/system defences, if the A.I could handle it.
Oh yeah, air units could still work IMO - nimble space fighters/gunships that can evade the fire of heavy ships and bomb targets or do recon, and dogfight each other [hopefully its possible to have land units as carriers?]
LEADERS/ARMIES - A major point, this requires land combat. IMO it would be cool to have space fleets, and you get leaders from space combat rather than marines attacking planets.
COLONISATION - One unit can do it all, you dont need to have a transport and a separate colonist unit. Also the A.I would probably like this better
Idea #1b - Have 'Star' terrain to represent a whole star system, where stars are the only squares where cities can be built (one of the cool things with the latest patch). Having individual planets taking up a square each would be cool, but it might get a bit strange on the map, and the number of terrain types is very limited. I have another idea for planets anyway.
With plains as space, terrain such as forests, mountains and hills - any type of terrain graphic that can go above the diamond area of the square, and not disturb nearby terrain types when placed - can be used as the various star system types - red giant, yellow star, blue star, binary etc.
Not a great deal of variety is allowed this way, but only 4 or 5 types of star should work, and give the map a nice varied galaxy look. Since planets affect the resource outputs of the system and not so much the star (see below) it doesnt matter really what the star type is.
Idea # 2 - NO city graphics, excpet maybe a symbol similar to the harbour/airport symbols to go above a star. So you have the star with the city title bar below it if it is colonised. Ive tried this and it looks quite good IMO.
Idea #3 - Planets as BONUS RESOURCES (thanks to civ3!) These can be placed NEXT to a star, maybe with the graphics for the planet resources done off-centre so that the planets appear to be closer to the star and not spread-out. IMO this is a nice way of doing it, because as i understand, the number of resources is not fixed in the rules (+ the resources graphics file can be expanded by adding extra rows). So any number of different planet types can be added, completely unlimited by the number of different terrain types used by the game.
E.G. Terran planets give LOTS of food, allowing the population of that system to grow large. Barren mineral-rich worlds give lots of shields for that system, but not much food. Since only 1 worker is needed to work the planet, it doesnt mean that a size 3 city/system cant have 2X the production of a size 10 farming system.
I tired having planet resources ON the star/city squares, but this didnt work since any food bonuses are ignored and the city square produces the standard 2 or whatever.
Idea #4 Luxury/Strategic resources - these can happily be placed ON the stars, giving maybe every system a certain resource or luxury to the owner. The graphics could be changed to look as if they're above and/or to the side of a star, not in the middile as it looks now.
----------------------------------
I think theres lots of new possibilites with civ3, such as unique units for each civ /alien race (i acutally have lots of ideas for different aliens). Or resources like special crystals or heavy alloys that you need to build certain ships and buildings - tons of possibities!
If youre wondering if the A.I can work on something like this, well i tried it on a custom made map and the A.I kicked my ass! It DOES realise that star squares are important and they where you build cities. Ive seen the A.I place defensive units on unclaimed stars, waiting for a settler to arrive. Ive had some problems with wokers, the A.I doesnt seem to want to build roads (maybe because i removed the irrigate.mining commands?).
Ive tested it with normal units which is a bit wierd (as you see in the pic). I can make basic units with direction only (no anim) with 3D MAX. A custom tech tree and buildings etc. will be the most difficult thing, maybe meaning this mod will never work. As for a custom civlopedia -
Ok, Thanks for reading this! (Wow, i spammed a lot). Any feedback/suggestions or any links to other space/sci-fi mods would be much appreciated (i know they must be out there!).
Great idea, no it's batter then great it's awsome. mines could be spacestations.
) Something like coast being a galactic boundary, sea representing a wormhole path between galaxies, and ocean as the impenetrable vast void in-between. Then you could have transport-type ships to ferry units through the wormhole with a combination of high-movement cost for the ocean void and "sink in ocean" for all "boats" to keep units out of the void. Something to think about, at least 
)
I will love to help if you were talking to me.
