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My totally unbiased and definitely not paid for by 2k review

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Afforess, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. Blitz66

    Blitz66 Chieftain

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    Stopped reading after this. How can it be more interesting, yet too artificial?

    I'm not going to waste my time on a review that contradicts itself this early on.
     
  2. Guardian_PL

    Guardian_PL Emperor

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    :confused:

    So you can't possibly imagine a situation, in which something is definitely interesting, but at the same time it gives you the feeling that something with it is not the way you'd want?

    Anyway, read or don't, it's your eyes not mine. I only thought that one of my favourite threads just got some more meaningful content, I guess I was wrong ^^
     
  3. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    I think one of the problems might be that the new combat system exaggerates AI problems. In Civ4, the AI could compensate through sheer quantity (since larger stacks = higher pressure), in Civ5, quantity most only increases the duration of your assault, much less the "pressure".

    So even a BtS-level AI might have difficulties, since the new game doesn't play to its strengths.
    Well, if you had continued reading, you might have found out... :p

    Cheers, LT.
     
  4. ArgentumStudios

    ArgentumStudios Warlord

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    Excellent review. I agree with most of what you said and hope that between patches from Firaxis and mods from the community that everything will be resolved in a way that fulfills the potential this game has. :)
     
  5. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Good review ... just two points:

    - Minor correction: BtS AI does not pillage. This has a reason : Civ IV vanilla AI was eager of pillaging with a typical group of 2 mounted units . Given the lack of ZoC + SoD, that was pretty much the same then sending groups of 2 units to death :p With 1upt + ZoC it is far more reasonable to pillage ...

    - Where have you seen the unobtrusive UI ? I would actually like to see it, since that so far, i only have a completely unergonomical, obtrusive and badly organized UI ;) Ok, maybe too harsh ... the interface has sound ideas behind ( the explandable panels are one of them ... props up for this ), but the extensive ( and abusive ) use of round pictures + the bad organization of a lot of stuff ( the specs openings is simply the most glaring example ), makes it really bad.
     
  6. USAFireFly

    USAFireFly Chieftain

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    Civ 4 Rise of Mankind is awsome. Civ V Stinks! It is truly AWFUL! Unbelievable how people can take a decent product and ruin it.
     
  7. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    Time for the longest response to people ever! I'm going to be pushing to 30k Char limit for sure.

    Addendum: I was right. This post has been split into two parts, as it originally was 36k Chars.

    I was evaluating the current system - not the future tools. The mod browser and modbuddy are inspired works, and will definitely make useing (and creating!) mods much easier. The XML is modular, and not file-dependent. Lua instead of python. I could go on - but basically, Firaxis did deliver in terms of modding.

    Time for the longest response to people ever! I'm going to be pushing to 10k Char limit for sure.

    I know what you mean. This is a large part of the problem with Civ5.

    Yes, please. For purely selfish reasons, of course. ;)

    Thanks! I love praise. :p

    That may be true, but MP is just as broken as the rest of the game. No Unit Animations? Random Unit Order? WTF?

    I know. I was a prince level player in Civ4. I played Monarch to get my butt kicked, which I always thoroughly enjoyed. (Honestly, losing a tough game is a lot more fun that winning by a wide margin, IMHO). I can play (and beat) Civ5 on diety, no problems.

    You're right! I totally forgot to mention how great hexes are, and how "streamlined" the game is. :lol:

    In all honesty, I didn't even notice the change from squares to hexes, and it doesn't seem to affect gameplay at all, so It's not worth mentioning.


    Thanks! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way - but I kinda wish I was.

    Thanks! ;)

    If your a die hard Civ fan, you're going to buy it anyway. If not - I suggest waiting for Fallout 4: New Vegas, that looks good. ;)

    This would be a lot of fun - I agree. It might be tricky to make work in MP though. I'll definitely consider such an idea when modding though. I always was partial to the idea of multi-nation alliances.

    I know, it's a total eyesore. The trading post graphics clash with the rest of the clean, and nice looking improvements. I kinda want the cottage chain back.

    I wasn't around for the Civ4 release, so I am unable to make a side-by-side comparison. However, I was around for the CitiesXL release, which had an eerily similar fate.

    Simply not allowing ranged combat over more than 1 tile for land units would fix that. I actually really like the civ5 combat system for the most part.

    I agree - the trade system they implemented is so strange as to be unnecessary. I'd almost be happier if they had just axed trade routes entirely instead of giving us this neutered version.

    Which is pretty much what I said in my review. ;)

    I know what you mean. I like the early game ( < 1600AD) the most in Civilization 5. I usually quit my games If I haven't won by the modern era. Turns take too long, there isn't much to do, and with so many units and cities, it feels more tedious than fun.

    I actually never played Ryhe's Civ4 mod (Feel free to bash me) or Fall from Heaven (Kael's going to strike me down now...), but I'm sure either of those mods are more entertaining than Civ5 ATM. I just hope Firaxis can fix it ASAP.

    No one likes math geeks. ;)

    A system build around resource rarity instead of static values would be best. So if there were 15 dye resources, and 30 cities, dye would only give +2 happiness. But if there were 2 dyes, and 30 cities, dye would give +15.

    I believe I stated as much in my review. Why build the Effiel Tower for 8 happiness when you can conquer an entire civilization and take their resources in the same time?

    I get the general feeling that the early policies are disproportionately weaker than the later ones.

    A 10str city should be able to nearly kill a 7 str attacking unit, not the other way around. City Strength seems to be totally broken.

    I share your pain.

    Okay - Maritime City States may be worth courting for the extra gold. But Military City States and Cultural City States aren't. It's much cheaper to just wipe them out.

    Instead of adding back the Diplomacy Modifiers - the AI could have an "ambassador" or "embassy" screen where they publicly state (or lie about) some modifiers. So the AI might give both truthful reasons, and lies for what they feel about you. You'd be able to do the same to the AI - state that you liked them, and for general reasons (or lies). Then diplomacy would be based on subterfuge, and hiding your intentions.

    That's such an obvious bug that I figure Firaxis can fix it themselves. ;)

    I can't agree more - I totally forgot to review the promotion system. I'd prefer to have a lot more additional starting promotions to chose from.

    That's an interesting idea, and would slow down the tech pace. There would need to be a way to NOT research though, so you don't advance accidentally.

    Cultural City States are still worth conquering IMHO.

    I figured game performance is too relative and based on your machine - so I avoided it. I did review the UI.

    Interesting suggestions. I think there is a UI fix list being compiled in another thread too. Might want to post there as well. ;)

    I think this game can be saved. That's why I reviewed it. If I had lost hope - I would be one of those posters. ;)

    Once you realize that you only need 6-7 military units and 2 workers max, your gold problems will vanish. Golden Ages help too. ;)

    I hope you're right.

    Finally! I was getting sick of agreeing with people. :lol:

    Play with Raging Barbs.

    See the picture I put on the OP - it shows neutral troops blocking a war front completely. Yes, having them get in the way is annoying, but I guess it doesn't bother me as much as you.

    I agree.
    I know, sadly. Say, what was it that we were disagreeing about? ;)

    The more I play, the worse it seems... The AI should be attacking the MOST wounded troops, in order to kill it, not just the closest.

    Yeah - It's a real downer when you realize that they actually have no real effect in-game. :sad:

    This game should have been a Christmas Release. :(

    Only to a certain degree. If you follow Gameplay > Realism for too long, you'll end up with COD:MW2. :lol:

    Yes, and yes! :)

    I learned something new today!

    Honestly, I never trust review sites anymore. I feel like they are all corporate shills...

    Feel free to sticky this!

    Oh yeah, the "Regular" Resources are a total bust.

    I agree :sad:

    I know - I get bored because no matter what I choose, I can do no wrong.
     
  8. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    Part two of the longest response ever! I care about you guys!


    I just wish I was wrong! Why hasn't anyone debated me yet!? :(

    I know. Seriously - I created this very system for Civ4, in my mod.

    XP Farming! It's even easier in Civ5! :lol:

    I had exactly the same scenario happen to me a Barb galley just kept shooting, and never left. I maxed out the XP cap pretty quickly.

    Play another 40 hours, and tell me if the fun is still there. I initially enjoyed it a lot too - but after a couple games, it got boring quick.

    Not going to debate steam, but IHMO It's a plus. I like steam, and own Valve games. (TF2 + HL1&2)

    Honestly, I always wish they would get rid of Civilizations, and just give us Red Team, Gold Team, Blue Team, etc... :lol:

    Dynamic XP Gain based on the situation would fix that.

    My review is not about what's gone - It's about what's there. And what's there is pretty broken.

    I think Ryhe has shown that you can be realistic and fun at the same time.

    :lol:


    Not going to debate steam, TYVM. ;)

    Aritificial and Interesting are not mutually exclusive. For instance, a japenese sex robot would be totally artificial and yet interesting. :lol:


    Whatever the case, I was still pleased to see some of my roads and farms get burned to the ground. ;)

    I hope so too.

    1.) See above.

    2.) I Know I said I wasn't comparing to Civ4. I'm using Civ4 as an example of an obtrusive UI. I Civ4 when you finished your turn, you'd get like 20 popups in your face for a new tech, new production, etc, all taking over your screen. In civ5, they are queued neatly in the sidebar, and it's one of the changes I really do like a lot.
     
  9. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    Nice review and I agree with most of your suggestions (but not all ;)

    I've had a city state retain a puppet in one of my games. Shocked the heck out of me. Annoying too since it poached it while I was sieging with intent to raze.

    Spoiler :
     
  10. Arrorn

    Arrorn Chieftain

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    ........ No Trebuchets were made from wood!

    From Wikipedia

    And if anyone says that wikipedia is inaccurate........ it is better than Encyclopedia Brittanica.... look it up!

    Don't care how much iron it requires. Do cannons require some form of metal????? Yes... though of course it depends upon the cannon (Mythbusters built a working wooden cannon... but with iron bands to hold it together) but the one in civ5 does... or should. unless, someone wants to retexture it so it looks wooden?

    I though not...
     
  11. veBear

    veBear Slumerican Citizen

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    I would like to see more on the diplomatic front, and the advisors from civ4 vere just way better. Hoping for some improvement there.
     
  12. troytheface

    troytheface Deity

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    horrible review

    said nothing

    "these are new and i (like or dislike)

    hardly a review

    but a good metaphor for gameplay

    hollow, no insight, no dynamic
     
  13. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    Care to clarify - what exactly was horrible about it? That you disagreed with my opinion? :lol:
     
  14. vandyr

    vandyr Prince

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    It was horrible because it didn't mirror the minority consensus that Firefly above spelled out so eloquently: "Civ V stinks it sucks!".

    If you're not saying that or agreeing with it, then you're obviously a fanboy.
     
  15. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Well, it looks like no one remembers our resident troll of civ IV strats and tips forum ;) Welcome back troy :D
     
  16. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    ...Attacko? :goodjob:

    Cheers, LT.
     
  17. PawelS

    PawelS Ancient Druid

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    It was a joke...
     
  18. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    Wasn't around then, as my creation date tells. ;)

    Well, I definitely am a fanboy. But Civ5 isn't giving me joyful orgasms like it should for any good fanboy. :p
     
  19. CyberTyrant

    CyberTyrant Emperor

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    His trolling goes back to the Civ3 days. :p
     
  20. vandyr

    vandyr Prince

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    I pee a little every time I launch it, but I agree with every criticism of the AI that's been posted. It definitely seems subpar.
     

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