Mysterious -2 ☹️ from other deductions

[Morgawr]

The "other deductions" for local happiness (that the UI doesn't break down) has been driving me crazy since day 1. I have cracked it EXCEPT for this mysterious -2 that I see in most of my settlements. This is a -2 AFTER accounting for all the known factors - eg if I'm 1 over settle cap, then I see a -7. If I'm at cap, I see -2. Not at war. Accounted for all the below possibilities already:

-5 per over settle cap
-5 no fresh water
-2 occupied
-3 per 1 WW (captured = -5, warring = -7)
-2 per specialist
-2 for most buildings
-2 unexplained >>> what I’m trying to crack

This is in exploration age. Not just one settlement but virtually all of them. No crisis yet, no policies impacting.

Does anyone know of any other local happiness deductions that could be in effect, which could explain the -2?

Spent countless hours clicking around all my settlements and dissecting this thinking I can figure out on my own but failed. If it turns out to be a bug I will

The only settlements where I DONT have this mysterious -2 (after accounting for all known deductions) are my new world distant land colonies at the moment. So weird, trying to piece these clues to solve that is going on.

 

[Alucard648]

Events may be culprit.

 

[Morgawr]

Events may be culprit.

I kept meticulous track but didn’t see any?? But possible yeah

 

[Morgawr]

It’s not events - I started a new game and this happens as soon as I enter war. I get a -2 to happiness in all my settlements. (Above and beyond what I itemized above) Why?

 

[protocol7]

The game doesn’t really support you yet in trying to understand how it works or what might impact your decisions, but hopefully over the next few months as it seems like they want to prioritise this.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

this happens as soon as I enter war

War support?

 

[Morgawr]

War support?

No it it’s in addition to war support / weariness = WW

In my current game:

At war but no WW, I see -2 in every settlement
If 1 WW, I see -5
If 2 WW, I see -8

Always 2 more than what it is supposed to be

(Self founded settlements. civilopedia says 1 WW = -3 )

Furthermore the -2 sticks after war is over. But haven’t tested that in this game yet. It goes away in Exploration. Then comes back at some point (testing that atm)

Hidden penalty?
Unexplained mechanic?
Bug?
Deity hidden penalty?
Rounding error in formulas??

 

[stealth_nsk]

No it it’s in addition to war support / weariness = WW

In my current game:

At war but no WW, I see -2 in every settlement
If 1 WW, I see -5
If 2 WW, I see -8

Always 2 more than what it is supposed to be

(Self founded settlements. civilopedia says 1 WW = -3 )

Furthermore the -2 sticks after war is over. But haven’t tested that in this game yet. It goes away in Exploration. Then comes back at some point (testing that atm)

Hidden penalty?
Unexplained mechanic?
Bug?
Deity hidden penalty?
Rounding error in formulas??

Could you post some screenshots? From within settlement and from reports

 

[Morgawr]

Here you go - the info I seek is buried under "other deductions" which is why the reports dont help.

Take Chalkis as an example below, simple town.

Left report shows 6+2+5 from districts, which adds up to 13 but it shows as +15 (+2 from 'other yields' that is not broken down)

Right report also shows those same numbers, but also shows the +4 abillity bonus. But then it applies a -2 deduction. Net is same, +15.

So what's this -2 deduction? Note that even in games where I don't have an ability (e.g. no +4), I still see this -2 (in other words, doesn't have to do with the ability..)

This just started happening around turn 15 in exploration (in this game - also happened in antiquity)

No wars, under cap

 

[Morgawr]

But brand new founded settlements don't have the deduction at start, as you can see on the right.

It emerges later - I will post a screenshot when it happens...

 

[stealth_nsk]

Here you go - the info I seek is buried under "other deductions" which is why the reports dont help.

Take Chalkis as an example below, simple town.

Left report shows 6+2+5 from districts, which adds up to 13 but it shows as +15 (+2 from 'other yields' that is not broken down)

Right report also shows those same numbers, but also shows the +4 abillity bonus. But then it applies a -2 deduction. Net is same, +15.

So what's this -2 deduction? Note that even in games where I don't have an ability (e.g. no +4), I still see this -2 (in other words, doesn't have to do with the ability..)

This just started happening around turn 15 in exploration (in this game - also happened in antiquity)

No wars, under cap

View attachment 722662View attachment 722663

Could you check, which buildings the settlement has? Some buildings and specialists have happiness support cost.

 

[Yzman]

Could it be difficulty since you said it is as soon as you start? Have you tried different settings?

 

[StargazingDog]

I assume there is a hidden war penalty, possibly only on non-default difficulty. I get the "war weariness" warning even when all cities are happy and I am not negative on any war support.

 

[Alucard648]

Which difficulty level you played? On Deity, I got DoW`ed by adjacent civ and got -12 in all cities instantly under the exactly the same mysterious line in breakdown.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Which difficulty level you played? On Deity, I got DoW`ed by adjacent civ and got -12 in all cities instantly under the exactly the same mysterious line in breakdown.

This line combines all minuses, so those could be totally different reasons.

 

[Morgawr]

Sorry guys for some reason I didn't get the alerts on the thread but I caught up now. I'm almost at the end of Exploration age and still the mysterious -2 is there (but in settlements founded in Antiquity only - details below).

No it is not related to any building unhappiness - if I take a simple town with hardly anything the -2 is still there.

Summarizing what I have observed as potential triggers:

- In Antiquity, the mysterious -2 hit all my settlements as soon as I entered my first war. (again as I said itemized above, this is aboye & beyond WW, buildings, cap penalty, etc.)

- In Exploration, it is still present in all my settlements founded in the previous age. All my new settlements do not have the penalty. (posted Toledo above as an example, that still stands as well as the 7 other colonies I founded). But I also have not been in war in this age yet.

Yes this is Deity and might have to do with that too, I had suspected.

Unless it's a BUG, my best guess = it's some warmonger penalty with all cities getting a -2 for "you put us through a war" that never goes away.. which is not explained because they never finished that "sources of unhappiness" civilopedia article

 

[Morgawr]

OK this is getting interesting, I'm still in detective mode:

I'm near the end of Exploration age, turn 78 @99%. At some point in the last 10 turns or so, probably after the crisis started, all my settlements got hit with an extra -2 unexplained !

I checked back so my original settlements now have -4 unexplained (were prevsiously -2 per my above post) and the new settlements are now -2 unexplained (were previously 0)

(NONE of my crisis cards have effects) Still had no wars this age, so this may NOT be war related after all

Now I'm guestting there's maybe some built in per settlement that triggers at turn x or with crisis

OR it could be a bug and maybe some building that's supposed to be neutral is deducting but showing up as 'other deductions'?

Will see if it's still there after the patch!

 

[Aurelesk]

Are you hated by other players?

It exists a Sanction that allows to reduce by 10% the Happiness. I don't know how it works. Is it -10% per city, or -10% in total which is then translated as a fixed value per city.
But the sanction is visible. So far, I never see any Leaders using Sanctions (except denunciation).

Even though, it doesn't answer your -2 Happiness in old settlement, it could explain the new -2 on all settlement?

 

[Morgawr]

No sanctions.

New patch released will check if still there in old save and also new game.. I won’t give up this pursuit until I figure this out!

 

[Morgawr]

I am thrilled to report that I played a new Antiquity game after the patch, up till around T120, and checked for the -2 every 10 turns, and it did NOT appear !!

Even when I got into multiple wars, all deductions I was able to account for - it was messy too as I was over cap, WW, occupation, etc, but I even then was able to account for everything - no hidden -2 !!!

After weeks of obsessing about this, I believe it might have been a bug that I caught which they fixed in the patch.

Either that or if it does come back in another game, I will be back on here.. until then, I will assume it's resolved and obsess over other bugs