n0x-02 -- OCC Cultural Victory

Conroe said:
Assuming n0xie is still MIA, it looks like I'm up again. :hmm: And it looks like n0xie has not been online in the last 3 days. There is no way I will be able to play for another 24 or so hours, so I think we'll wait and see if n0xie rejoins us.

@n0xie: You're up if you want it ...
Well, it looks like n0xie has gone AWOL on us. According to his profile, he has not been online since May 2nd.

@Methos: Since you got skipped, do you want to play this next turn? If not, I will go ahead and take it. Your call ...
 
Lurker's comments:
Cultural victory in an OCC... I *have* to see that.
Lurking! :goodjob:

And for your information, I remember hearing that you need to work the hills to have ressources pop up; this was said because someone was mining a hill outside a BFC... strange that I remember the context, but I can't remember who said it...
 
Turn 0, 800 AD: I decide to merge the great scientist, which bumps us from 122 bpt to 133 bpt. I also notice that we’re at 20 gold with -7 gpt. Checking out our citizen placement I decide to do a little citizen adjustment. Basically I just moved a couple forest workers onto cottages to increase our commerce. Even though we’re at 100% research this still dropped us to -6 gpt. Not for sure why. We shaved off one turn on Education and if we want we can bump research to 90% and not lose any turns on our research. I’ll probably end up doing that in a few turns anyway.

IBT: We grow to size 13. And we get this:

View attachment 126303

Looks like Gandhi is going to be our partner. Have we already made that decision? Or are we still trying to figure it out?

Turn 1, 820 AD: I just noticed that there is an away cost for units. I can’t believe I’m just now seeing that. Anyway, our level 4 archer moves back into our borders heading for home, bringing us to -5 gpt. I hope no one minds, but I deleted the ‘auto chop’ sign that someone put up. It’s been there since at least my last turn set. To help ease the burden of our negative gpt I trade our furs to Cathy for 2 gpt. It isn’t much, but at least it helps some. I suggest after ten turns (?) we end the deal and see about getting a better one.

Turn 2, 840 AD: :coffee:

IBT: Education>Machinery. I did this as I thought we may want to take Printing Press as our free tech with Liberalism, plus I couldn’t remember what had been discussed. Feel free to change this, but Printing Press will help big time with our research.

London Heroic Epic>University

Turn 3, 860 AD: Had to lower research to 90% as we’re down to 8 gold with -3 gpt. I can’t remember the last time I dropped to 90% research on an OCC!

IBT: Cuman was captured by the Indian Empire.

Turn 4, 880 AD: :coffee:

IBT: Our scout was destroyed by a barbarian axmen. I didn’t even realize we had a scout!?!

Turn 5, 900 AD: We’ve gained some gold so I put us back to 100% research. We’re now at 16 gold with a -1 gpt loss.

Turn 6, 920 AD: Work on the sugar plantation is complete and a road is started. Since it gives a happiness bonus we can sell our sugar for gpt.

IBT: London University>Aqueduct- We need the +2 :health: for growth.

Turn 7, 940 AD: :coffee:

IBT: Machinery>Liberalism

Turn 8, 960 AD: The sugar is now connected, but I’ll wait for the next player to make a trade. Cathy was willing to trade her surplus copper for our sugar and clams. I’m not for sure losing our only source of clams is in our best interest.

IBT: London University>The Colossus- It was mentioned that we needed to build this wonder soon, so work has been started. It’ll only take seven turns to complete.

Turn 9, 980 AD: :coffee:

Turn 10, 1000 AD: The worker completes another road.

I’ve left the worker with full movement, so the next player can do with him as they want.

A few suggested builds we may want to consider:

  • Lighthouse- Currently we are only working two water tiles but the extra food would still be nice. Plus with the added bonus of the Colossus we may want to work more water tiles for the additional commerce. Plus this is a requirement for the Great Lighthouse.
  • Monasteries- These builds are fairly cheap for us (two turn builds) and add a 10% bonus to research, for a total of 20% with our current religions.
  • Market: The bonuses from the market itself are not worth it, but being able to hire two merchant specialists are. If we had one merchant specialist we could stay at 100%.
  • The Great Lighthouse- Adds two trade routes and doesn’t expire until the Corporation. We definitely need the cash right now.

Roster:
n0xie- MIA
Conroe- Up
ruff-hi
Methos- Just Played

I've added a screenshot of our city.
 
Methos said:
I hope no one minds, but I deleted the ‘auto chop’ sign that someone put up. It’s been there since at least my last turn set.
Are we rocking or what? How easy is it to manage a OCC! I posted the 'auto chop'. Maybe it was a misnomer - what is means is that I pre-chopped the forest down to yielding the hammers in 1 turn. I suppose the sign should have been 'chop in 1'. I sort of use this technique to help rush wonders.
 
Got It ...

I'm down to 2 SG's and I'm up in both of them. :crazyeye: I may end up using the whole 48 hours on this one ...

Methos said:
Looks like Gandhi is going to be our partner. Have we already made that decision? Or are we still trying to figure it out?
After that screenshot that you posted, I'm certainly inclined to agree with you. I think Frederick may have been really hurt, development-wise, by that war with Mongolia. My concern about Gandhi is he may not want a PA with us if he has a commanding lead over the other AI. Its a shame that n0xie isn't here to comment since he actually has a bit of experience with this variant.

Methos said:
IBT: Education>Machinery. I did this as I thought we may want to take Printing Press as our free tech with Liberalism, plus I couldn't remember what had been discussed. Feel free to change this, but Printing Press will help big time with our research.
I've got to agree with you on Printing Press. n0xie also mentioned beelining to Military Tradition to get a defensive pact going with our ally. Should we do that after PP?

n0xie said:
I think the tech tree should be something like this: bw, hunting, wheel, pottery, writing, alphabet

We skip anything else and just trade for it after alphabet, abuse the Oracle slingshot to CS, then going straight for Literature (NE) and beeline for Education (Oxford), backfill using Alphabet, then beeline for Militairy Tradition (Defensive Pact to get relations for PA going)
 
Get them really happy with us and they will accept a defensive pact and alliance. I've been playing OCCs for a while and it seems that Cathy just falls into my arms all the time.
 
I decided to play this turnset before my turn in Ruff03 (Sorry Ruff!) as OCC turns usually go pretty quick.

ruff_hi said:
... it seems that Cathy just falls into my arms all the time ...
It must be your lion's mane in your avatar, you gigolo, you! :lol:




Situation Assessment: Overall, things are looking pretty good. Gandhi is pleased with us, with a net +5 in relations. We are taking a -3 penalty for having the wrong religion. We probably ought to start thinking about building some Missionaries to send to India. Maybe we can get him to convert to Confucianism. Or maybe he will get the hint and send a Hindu Missionary our way and we can convert.

We currently have 11 gold in the bank and are spending it at -1gpt with 100% on the research slider. We have no source of income, other than the 2gpt that Methos got for trading fur to Catherine. A shrine would allow us to keep the research slider at 100%, but we keep getting Great Scientists.

We are researching Liberalism, which is due in 7 turns. We will take Printing Press as our free tech. After that, we can go for Nationalism and Military Tradition, as n0xie suggested at the start of the game. Alternatively, we can do Guilds, Banking, and Economics to get the free Great Merchant. Merging the merchant would also allow us to keep the research slider at 100%.

According to the demographics screen, we are dead last in troops. Considering this is an OCC, that is not too troubling. We do have 7 Horse Archers, 3 Archers, and 4 Warriors. I'm not sure that I agree with the last promotion given to our Level 4 Archer. He has Guerilla II and City Garrison I promotions. The problem with that is London is NOT built on a hill.

Turn 0 - 1000AD: London is currently running a single Engineer specialist. I fire the Engineer and hire a Priest. Hopefully, we can pop a Great Prophet to build us a shrine.

We are currently trading our fish to Gandhi for his cow. This deal is a net wash to us that was originally done to improve relations with him. I renogiate this deal to give Gandhi our sugar for his cow, and thus an extra health.

I'm not really sure what to do with our Worker, as all of our tiles are improved. I decide to go ahead and chop the "autochop" forest. Maybe it will shave a turn off of the Colossus, although I doubt it.

Turn 1 - 1010AD: I pull a couple of troops back into our territory to reduce the unit supply costs. We are now earning +1gpt.

Methos suggested ending the fur deal with Catherine after 10 turns and renogiating for more money. It was a good idea, unfortunately, Catherine does not have any more money, so I leave the deal in place for a little while longer.

Turn 2 - 1020AD: Well, I'll be! That forest did shave a turn off of the colossus, as it yielded 40 hammers.

Turn 3 - 1030AD: :coffee:

IBT: Catherine is getting pushy. She comes demanding Philosophy. Why does this broad always demand techs when I'm up? Maybe I should get me a lion's avatar ... I go ahead and give it to her. Philosophy, that is!

Then, since she is pleased with us, I figure I will try a long shot. I ask for copper for free. She gives it to us!

Turn 4 - 1040AD: more :coffee:

Turn 5 - 1050AD: The Colossus has been built. I start us on a 1-turn Lighthouse so that we can start working the supercharged coastal tiles.

Turn 6 - 1060AD: Liberalism is learned. I take Printing Press as our free tech. In hindsight, this may have been a mistake. It only added 4 commerce to our city, since we were only able to build 4 cottages. I should have taken Nationalism, since it was the more expensive tech. Anyway, I start us on Nationalism, but I'm tempted to switch it to Guilds.

London completes its Lighthouse. The city is MM'ed to work all of the commerce tiles. Its starts on a Confucian Monastery next.

Turn 7 - 1070AD: I'm starting to get tired of :coffee:

IBT: Genghis Khan declares war on Frederick.

Turn 8 - 1080AD: The Confucian Monastery is complete and I started us on a Taoist Monastery.

IBT: Fred loses a city.

Turn 9 - 1090AD: A Great Scientist is born in London. :sad: How I really wanted a Prophet. I suggest that we merge the Scientist, but I will leave it for the next player ...

I also notice that Catherine now has an extra coin. The fur deal can be renegoiated for 3gpt -- I don't like making trade deals this late in the turnset, so I am going to leave that decision to the next player, as well.

Turn 10 - 1100AD: London completes the Taoist Monastery. I start us on a Confucian Missionary, next so that we can start spreading the word to Gandhi. Please feel free to veto this decision, as Oxford University is also available to be built.

Here is a look at London:



And the save ...
 
Roster:
n0xie- MIA
Conroe- Just Played
ruff-hi- Up
Methos- On Deck

A 3 person roster is a bit much for an OCC. How does the team feel about advertising for a replacement player?
 
Conroe said:
It must be your lion's mane in your avatar, you gigolo, you! :lol:
I don't remember getting paid for it!
Conroe said:
IBT: Catherine is getting pushy. She comes demanding Philosophy. Why does this broad always demand techs when I'm up? Maybe I should get me a lion's avatar ... I go ahead and give it to her. Philosophy, that is!

Then, since she is pleased with us, I figure I will try a long shot. I ask for copper for free. She gives it to us!
What! Here we are, a very little one city country with no metal at all, Cathy gives us some copper (kisses to you, ma girl) and not once in the next 6 turns do I see ...

London: Starts AXEMAN!

Sigh!

Re a three man roster ... feel free to invite a known additional player.
 
ruff_hi said:
I don't remember getting paid for it!
She is paying 2gpt ... :mischief:

ruff_hi said:
What! Here we are, a very little one city country with no metal at all, Cathy gives us some copper (kisses to you, ma girl) and not once in the next 6 turns do I see ...

London: Starts AXEMAN!

Sigh!
I did think about it! Does that count? :lol: I came to the conclusion that we really didn't need the troops after your awesome horses deal. Yes, I'm sucking up now. Besides, we would have had to lower the research slider to pay for the increased military. What I really wanted to do was spend some money to uprgrade our 4 Warriors. But alas, I started with 11 gold and finished with not much more.
 
Ok, I this is my 'Got it'
 
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[/late night tv ad]

So, team - are we looking for some excitement? Well, how about declaring war on the leading civ (power-wize)? Here is the power graph ...


... and here is what brought this about ...


I spent about 15 full minutes with this on screen. I looked at the location of Khan v us (Kathy and Huayna are between us and him but they both have open borders with Khan). I looked at the relationships - no problem there - everyone hates him. I also looked at who would join in the fight and what the cost was (Gandhi - no, Cathy - yes for nationalism). I didn't check stop trading (ie close borders). I also looked at Khan's techs - his UU (horses) and axes and that was it - no maces, knights, etc. We can upgrade our troops (3 archers, 4 warriors) for about 900 gps (see below). I didn't look at upgrading our horses - I don't think we can - no iron.

The cost of upgrading ...
3 archers to longbows @ 95 each
2 woodsman II warrior to mace @ 195
2 warriors to anti-horse units (forgot name) @ 95
Total - 900 (I have already spent 200 so only need another 700 (or 7 turns).

So, in the end I said yes ... turned out science down to 0% (+111 gpt) ... even then military tradition will be done in 11.

Anyway, that is jumping forward to turn 7. Other activities:
  • send missionary to Gandhi (he will not convert as not enough of his population believe)
  • finished the oxford uni - with a chop (another one grew in our borders!)
  • merged the scientist
  • sent our confucian missionary away
  • learned nationalism
  • traded sheep for claims with Gandhi - health neutral

Here is Gandhi asking for paper (for free) ...


And here is the state of London ...


I am not sure why we have a farm outside the BFC. Suggestions for next player:
  • run at 0% for 7 turns
  • upgrade units requiring copper first (ie archers last)
  • organize peace with Khan at earliest turn (another 7 I think)
  • seek defensive pack with Gandhi (and others?) - available in 11 turns but will be less when you turn science back up

Spoiler log :


----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 170 (1100 AD)

IBT:

Turn 171 (1110 AD)
Ruff_Hi: merge the scientist
London grows: 16
London finishes: Confucian Missionary

IBT:

Turn 172 (1120 AD)
London begins: Oxford University
Taoism has spread: Ollantaytambo (Incan Empire)

IBT:

Turn 173 (1130 AD)
Ruff_Hi: Huayna comes asking for machinary - Gandhi is at -3 NO
Tech learned: Nationalism

IBT:

Turn 174 (1140 AD)
Research begun: Military Tradition

IBT:

Turn 175 (1150 AD)

IBT:

Turn 176 (1160 AD)
Ruff_Hi: Chop 1 forest for Oxford - another one grows - free Hammers

IBT:
Confucianism has spread: Yakutsk (Russian Empire)

Turn 177 (1170 AD)
Ruff_Hi: drop science to 0% for GPs
London's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 178 (1180 AD)
Confucianism has spread: Madras (Indian Empire)
London finishes: Oxford University

IBT:

Turn 179 (1190 AD)
Ruff_Hi: trade sheep for claims wiht Gandhi - health neutral
London begins: Taoist Temple
London begins: National Epic

IBT:

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
Ruff_Hi: upgrade 1 Woodsman II warrior to mace
Ruff_Hi: 3 archers @ 95, 1 warrior @ 195 and 2 warriors @ 95 = 700 in total
 
ruff_hi said:
So, team - are we looking for some excitement?
Sure, why not? I've been married for a long time. I could always do with some excitement.

ruff_hi said:
Well, how about declaring war on the leading civ (power-wize)?
Noooo ... :nope: Can't say that I would call that excitement ... I can think of a few words, but excitement isn't one of them. :lol:

Actually, though, it does appear that you have put a lot of thought into your plan. I like your upgrade ideas. I do wish we had a few more melee units, though. Khan's horses ignore terrain movement costs, so they can be down here pretty quick. Who knows, maybe we get lucky and can sign a peace deal before he even shows up.

ruff_hi said:
Here is Gandhi asking for paper (for free) ...
:goodjob: Have we decided on Gandhi or Frederick for our PA partner, yet?
 
Roster Check:
n0xie - MIA
Conroe - On Deck
ruff-hi - Just Played
Methos - UP

A 3 person roster is a bit much for an OCC. How does the team feel about advertising for a replacement player?
 
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