Narrow minded play

[Groogaroo]

I've been climbing the levels slowley but surely over the last couple of years (Thanks to this great forum) from Cheiften to Emporer and I realised the other day I've almost become too focused in the way I play almost to the point of narrow mindness!

Some examples...

On lower levels I never used to rely on one aspect of the game and always mixed things up from one game to the next, from monarch and up I always cottage spam and always follow the same boring tech paths (Aesthetics to trade, then up through currency to Civilservice then Lib). I seem to have got it into my head that I can't compete at Emporer unless I follow this route.

Too reliant on Hereditary Rule. Realising the importance of early hereditary rule really helped me in climbing up the levels but now I seem to be too reliant on it, staying in HR all game almost every game!

Same thing goes for almost all civics, I find myself stuck in HR/FreeSpeech/Emancipation/FreeMarket/Freereligion pretty much everygame.

Two buttons in the game I have never used... Rushbuy & Draft which is really bad!



I've just had a week off work and havn't really felt like playing civ at all because I feel my game has become somewhat stagnent.

Does anyone else get stuck on certain civics/styles of play almost to the detriment of their game?

Any tips for breaking out of narrow minded play?

 

[Ringo Kid]

Play the game, without worrying about winning it. It's just a computer game, who cares how it turns out.

Attack everything that moves, just for the fun of it.

Play a random civ on a random map.

Figure out what makes sense. Then do the opposite.

 

[kossin]

Two buttons in the game I have never used... Rushbuy & Draft which is really bad!

Does anyone else get stuck on certain civics/styles of play almost to the detriment of their game?

Any tips for breaking out of narrow minded play?

Draft can be very very very powerful with a good Globe city. It can build half of your army by itself.... or even all the troops while your other cities focus on siege/spies.

Rush-buy comes late game and works very very well (especially with Kremlin) but most of the time you know the game's won by then.

Habits: I love horse wars... Liberalism -> Military Tradition. Addicted to slavery and Creative leaders. Getting more and more addicted to farms over cottages.
An alternative to Aesthetics is Oracle -> Metal Casting/CoL/Monarchy. It's not too hard to get Oracle even without Marble and it denies it to the AI.

Civics: Representation/US are usually a lot better than Monarchy imo. Whip away the unhappy citizens on happy buildings if need be/trade for resources if you can.
I rarely stay in FM late game - unless I've got a corporation. SP is usually just too powerful with production/food and Environmentalism can be pretty good around Assembly Line to counter Coal Plants. Free Speech isn't always best. Bureaucracy is more powerful than FS for a while usually. NH can be considered for happiness/espionage.

Breaking habits:
Force yourself doing something different.

-I will not build any wonder this game
-I will not build any cottages this game
-Try an Espionage approach
-draft at least 50 rifles in a game
-etc.
-switching speeds can be fun (especially slower -> faster I find. faster -> slower makes the game seem like a drag to me)

 

[noto2]

Well do you always play as the same leaders, too? The way I'll play Pacal or Willem is very different from the way I play Shaka or Suleiman. I can promise you that cottage spamming is not the only way to win, nor is it necessary to win the liberalism race, nor is it necessary to go early HR. I've been playing Civ4 casually for years but a few months ago I started playing random leaders, and let me tell you, that has made the game a LOT more fun. If you're playing a financial leader, it's often best to cottage spam, and so if you always play as FIN leaders I can understand your predicament. Try mixing it up a bit.

 

[KingMorgan]

Play HOF games or multiplayer (pitboss)

 

[McThomas]

play THE MAP haha

i do that all the time... allthough i useually REX and rush alot

 

[budweiser]

I've been trying to cottage spam as Gandhi after taking Polytheism this week on Emperor. Let me tell you it doesnt work. I'm starting to think early cottage spam is only good for financial since I tend to play the Dutch and the English quite a bit.

 

[Groogaroo]

Thanks for the replies, just for the record I tend to play as many games from these boards as possible so all my games in theory are random leaders/maps courtesy of Nobles Club or Immortal University.

Breaking habits:
Force yourself doing something different.

-I will not build any wonder this game
-I will not build any cottages this game
-Try an Espionage approach
-draft at least 50 rifles in a game
-etc.
-switching speeds can be fun (especially slower -> faster I find. faster -> slower makes the game seem like a drag to me)

Yeah, this is what I really need to try and do, force myself to play differently.

I tried normal speed a couple of times the other day as I want to try and play more games, felt totally lost at that speed after so long at Epic!

Play HOF games or multiplayer (pitboss)

HOF... maybe I should check them out, never really thought anout it. Multiplayer? Hmmm... I'm far too much of a wimp!

 

[lymond]

Wow...I get out of HR as soon as I can and usually try to build the Mids to run Rep as long as possible. I have started to get some good use out of US. As Kos mentioned, the Globe if very powerful if used correctly in the right city - lots o food. I usually make it a secondary unit pump. Run slavery and Nationhood for a bit and build a huge army. Maybe try variations on Spiritual trait leaders to strategically manipulate your civics. Honestly, most of the civics you mentioned I tend to avoid at all possible with the exception of Free Speech if I going for a cultural VC.

edit: In addition to the HOF games, try the xOTM games too if you haven't. I dislike normal speed too.

 

[Groogaroo]

Wow...I get out of HR as soon as I can and usually try to build the Mids to run Rep as long as possible.

Well I havn't built the Mid's since moving up from prince, although before that I used to build them almost everygame due to my current play style, cottages, cottages & more cottages, rep never seems worth while... something I need to change.

edit: In addition to the HOF games, try the xOTM games too if you haven't. I dislike normal speed too.

You mean like Game of the month and so on right? Something else I havn't tried out before. I may have to wander over to those boards and have a look.

 

[lymond]

Well I havn't built the Mid's since moving up from prince, although before that I used to build them almost everygame due to my current play style, cottages, cottages & more cottages, rep never seems worth while... something I need to change.



You mean like Game of the month and so on right? Something else I havn't tried out before. I may have to wander over to those boards and have a look.

Yeah...until I played the Games of the Month I used to replay or restart all that time. Due to the rules it really makes me play the game like it should be played - no replays. They are also cool just for the challenging maps and unique setups.

 

[Deckhand]

You mean like Game of the month and so on right? Something else I havn't tried out before. I may have to wander over to those boards and have a look.

xOTM is about all I play.

Spoiler :

Plus once a week friendly (usually no human vs human, at least not early) multiplayer with friends.

Yeah...until I played the Games of the Month I used to replay or restart all that time. Due to the rules it really makes me play the game like it should be played - no replays. They are also cool just for the challenging maps and unique setups.

And a good mix of civs, leaders, levels and Vanilla/Warlords/BtS.

 

[UWHabs]

I think I follow more different paths since moving up to emperor than when I was playing before.

Best way for me is to set out with a goal in mind, depending on my mood. So, you get dependant on HR/cottage spam? Pick a philosophical leader, and regenerate until you see stone in your BFC. Play anticipating you'll build the pyramids and farm and run specialists all game.

Then, play the map! Although knowing how things always screw you over, you're going to end up with the following game:
1. you're going to have an early neighbour to rush
2. You'll have Louis on the other side of the world with stone building the pyramids before you do
3. You'll end up stuck in a huge jungle = cottage spam heaven
4. After rushing a neighbour, you're going to end up with Pacal and Gilgamesh left on your landmass, meaning it'd be crazy not to run HR anyways.

Or if you want to learn to draft, play a game as Ethiopia, Ottomans, or British. Especially if you play as Suleiman, he screems for a game where you farm everything, run specialists, and then draft like crazy once you get to janissaries.

 

[champ82]

Some random thoughts to the OP

-I find it curious that moving up in levels makes your tech path static. The more challenged I get the more I mix up the tech path and try different stratagies.

On my 2nd emperor victory I went with the low road around rifling, chemistry, steel, military science as opposed to gunning for rifling (HRE, frigates were important, military academies came into effect.) Whether I go for rifles or cannons varies from game to game.

On my most recent immortal win I bulbed astronomy before winning liberalism, that was a first I think.

Tech path depends on many things, civ, resources, geography, neighbors and on and on.

-Have you built the pyramids? I don’t want to encourage you to become dependent on them, I build them in less than a third of my games but know that they are there and that sometimes they are optimal (and sometimes the failure cash is.) It may help with your dependence on HR and cottages though.

-Somewhat on topic, I’m not one of those people who say don’t build a great wonder. Early great wonders can be fantastic or even necessary. But don’t treat them all the same and don’t go for all of them. At the level I play at now I usually will go for 1 early one…the rest depends on everything.

TG Lighthouse is great…but if the AIs go into Mercantilism be prepared for the crash.

TG Wall is great for an espionage economy (this isn’t as complicated as it sounds, make a great spy and a regular spy and steal a bunch of techs and trade for them.)

The pyramids are not great if you don’t have a lot of food or if you have lots of aggressive neighbors.

Oracle to COL may not be great if there’s already been lots of religion spread and you’re not ORG.

-Try the Globe draft city…I didn’t until recently and man...

-Don’t go into a game with ANY preconceived notions. This is the opposite of what some may tell you. No point in my opinion saying I will try the Pyramids or I will try the Great Lighthouse or I will try capturing a shrine with a HA rush…only to find out none of these examples are applicable to your map. Now if (for example) you have never built the Great Lighthouse, or taken a shrine with HAs etc. and it seems feasible AND optimal, then go for it – and note what worked and what didn’t work.

Don’t get caught up in ‘ultimate leverage’ mind traps…invading when you don’t really want to because you’re IMP or AGG…going for Great Library at all costs because you’re PHI etc.

PLAY THE MAP, take chances with new wonders, civics, diplomatic approaches etc. but not for no reason. Free your mind and the rest will follow.

 

[dirtyparrot]

I can actually relate to some of what you're saying. It does seem like the game is structured (or at least the common advice) along a few narrow paths. If you look at the public games on the S&T, the updates are always centered around Liberalism, etc. And while in most cases this may be good or even optimal way to proceed (and much easier to teach someone to improve), I think that blindly following advice and not thinking it through leads to just monkey see monkey do way of doing things.

I would agree with Kossin to force yourself to doing things that you're not used to. I'm making myself do this before I move to Immortal. I was just like you and never drafted (so I guess it's perfectly possible to be a decent Emperor player and not know some of the fundamentals). In my current game, I decided that I would make drafting an absolute must. I teched Steel first (thanks to a couple GA's) so I could build the siege component of my stack while I teched to rifling and built the Globe. Drafted most of my rifles and quickly vassaled 2 neighbours and destroyed another (it also didn't hurt that most of their units were mounted). So, drafting is extremely powerful and I suggest that you at least try it.

From my observation, the game is about maximizing your advantages and pouncing at the right time. Only with a well-thought out plan will you be able to less reliant on the same "boring" strategies.

 

[DaveMcW]

Aesthetics/Philosophy/Liberalism are AI tech weaknesses, it's just so easy to exploit them.

 

[bestsss]

Same thing goes for almost all civics, I find myself stuck in HR/FreeSpeech/Emancipation/FreeMarket/Freereligion pretty much everygame.

Huh?
You have 3 civics geared towards happiness (HR/Free religion and emancipation); seriously trade for resources and build some buildings.

Free Market is a good civic if you have international trade routes and on lower difficulties it can even be better than state property commerce-wise. However, it's not a civic you'd like to end up your game, neither it's something to seek unless running corporations.

State property is usually the civic of choice for (post) cavalry, growing empire. Strong production and lowered maintenance that scales well w/ the difficulty handicap and the inflation (for some reason the player overlook inflation truly a lot).

I am not a fan of US at all but sometimes it's handy. Especially handly if you get Kremlin. Very good w/ Christo Redentor. Not building cottages at all is something (already mentioned) you should try. Holds true especially w/ the pyramids.

Organized religion is possibly the best long term religious civic to run, so if you can run religion, consider that. Extra strong with the whip.

There are no words to describe how good the nationhood is, so just use it. It wins games on its own.

 

[kossin]

Just had a thought...

Have you read Artichoker's Vassalage walkthroughs? It makes for quite a different early game but it can be used well into the Renaissance/beginning of Industrialism to good benefits as well.

 

[vicawoo]

It seems to me you're making two different points. You're

1) stuck doing "optimal" builds.

2) stuck doing un-optimal strategies (no drafting, etc)

To change 1), lower the difficulty. To change 2), increase the difficulty.

 

[noto2]

Yeah I'm surprised you're always stuck in Free Religion. I rarely use that civic. I used to use it a lot because I thought the 10% beakers were important, but now I more often find myself in either Organized Religion (if going for a space win) or Theocracy (thump thump thump). 25% bonus hammers for buildings is really nice, and you can keep a state religion.