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National parks under utilized?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Jigglewiggle, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Jigglewiggle

    Jigglewiggle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    The National Parks mechanic is one of my favorite minor aspects of the game, but I think they are really poorly executed. Does anyone else think it's weird that they can only be bought with faith? This doesn't seem to be a balancing mechanic. as I don't think they could be abused if they were built like Archeologists or Spys. I think it's really annoying that in order to really utilize national parks I have to develop an entire faith infrastructure. Plus it doesn't make sense with the real world, either.

    Further, I think they should be better anyway. Maybe yield a science/culture or two on all tiles within the park?

    As they are I think there is rarely a reason to even bother with them. But there seems to be so much more that could be done with them both for improved game mechanics and to give them a greater sense of realism.

    Are there any mods out there (I've yet to see any) that make them buildable or better in any way? Would making a mod for these things be difficult?
     
    Banazir864 likes this.
  2. criZp

    criZp Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Messages:
    690
    Location:
    Nidaros, Norway
    I think it's a weird decision too, that naturalists can only be made with faith. And the price is steep on top of that.

    National parks also have this ugly green line around it, for some reason.
     
  3. Softly

    Softly Chieftain

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    Aug 25, 2017
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    189
    It is definitely a balancing mechanic. Prior to Rise and Fall there is not much you can do with faith if you are not going for a religious victory. Outside of the tourism, National Parks are also a great way to get amenities. I normally build at least no matter the victory condition for the amenities and the inspiration.
     
  4. dunkleosteus

    dunkleosteus Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
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    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I can -sort of- see why they would make NPs a faith purchase. If you sort of squint a bit, you could see faith as a representation of some sort of spirituality or at least more than religious zeal. Some people find experiencing natural beauty to be a religious experience. It may make more sense in some belief systems. If you interpret faith as inspiration of some kind (perhaps the kind that would inspire people to build something or go to war or preserve [deity]'s creation), I could understand why faith buying buildings, units or conservationists might be explained.
     
    Banazir864, acluewithout and Olleus like this.
  5. Slan

    Slan Chieftain

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    Feb 22, 2018
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    Yes I find it weird that it is faith but I have reasoned to myself that it is linked as Dunkleosteus mentioned. but a lot of times I get to the information era and have accumulated a lot of faith because I just don't use it and national parks pop up and I get excited that I get to create national parks.

    I do also hate the shape limitation a diamond is quite hard to fit into one city's boundary.
    All my national parks have been either achieved by Eiffel tower which doesn't make much sense to me or spamming forests and removing adjacent mines makes more sense but not many of them are old forest that requires preserving.

    It would make more sense to have them as worker improvements that remove all base yields but give tourism, science and culture based on their appeal and maybe amenities based on adjacent natianl park tiles.
    don't know how this would play though.
     
    Banazir864 and dunkleosteus like this.
  6. Jigglewiggle

    Jigglewiggle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
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    Right, I can get behind the sort of mysticism spiritualism aspect of it all, too. But I do think it's a shame, even with that flavor, to limit parks to ONLY being purchased with faith. We can easily conceive of how they might come to exist in a non-spiritual way, even using "spiritual" very loosely.
    If the best reason they are strictly faith related is so that there's a purpose for games where otherwise faith is ignored, then I think that's more of a game design flaw than anything. In that case the game should just have more to do with faith regardless of national parks being their only use in that situation.

    Totally agree about the shape limitation. It's really awkward to always have to be in that specific diamond. Functioning like a worker were they have a certain number of "builds" to create interlinking national park tiles would really up their usefulness, flavor, and the game mechanic in general, imo. Especially if, as mentioned, they altered the base yields in some way. And for heaven's sake, why can't lakes or coastal wonders be part of parks?

    So much of the mechanic doesn't make sense to me, haha. Again, yea, it might just be a balancing issue, and perhaps I don't understand the tourism mechanics very well, but so far as I can tell, they don't seem to be a game changer nearly as much as spamming seaside resorts is, for example.It really just seems like such a missed opportunity for such a potentially neat mechanic.

    With all that said, I ask again if anyone knows whether there are any mods for parks out there? (I haven't seen any). Or for those with experience modding, would alterations to national parks as discussed in this thread be particularly difficult? Or even possible? I'm seriously about to pick up modding myself if that's what it takes to make national parks more dynamic and interesting, haha.
     
    Banazir864 likes this.
  7. acluewithout

    acluewithout Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    729
    I agree with @dunkleosteus 's take, and I think overall I like being only able to buy National Parks with faith.

    The only catch is, if faith represents some sort of more general spirituality ... why can you basically only get faith from Holy Sites?

    I mean, I guess you can also get faith from religious city states (but that still feels very 'religious'), or from pantheons (but hard to justify taking a faith pantheon if you're not going religion), or randomly (good huts, the occasional great person, relics).

    I'd really like some way to generate faith outside of religion. Maybe there should be a policy card in the late game which lets you get faith from Theatre Districts...
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  8. dunkleosteus

    dunkleosteus Lieutenant Commander

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    Aug 17, 2015
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    502
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    You can get a little bit of faith from policy cards, too. Obviously God King, but Triangular Trade (+4 gold, +1 faith from trade routes) and Raj (+2 science, culture, faith, gold from each city state you are the suzerain of). There are also a couple of resources that generate faith.

    I might go with a faith pantheon even if I don't get a religion because there are lots of things you can do with faith other than religion. Valletta lets you faith-buy city center buildings (when you conquer cities, you can purchase walls for a mere ~100 faith, an easy purchase for defending them from the civ you're at war with) and there's a golden age policy for civilians from faith. There's always great people as well.
     
    acluewithout likes this.

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