"Native American"

[Drewcifer]

I was just thinking about the Native American/Sioux civ.

There are a fair number of reservations and indians living in Minnesota. I don't know if people realize this but most indians in the US call themselves Indian or Native, not Native American. Native American is a pc white person word that sounds like it was made up by a comittee, I know some people who find it mildly insulting. Anyway the proper name for the Sioux is Dakota (or Lakota). Sioux is what the French Canadian fur trappers called them back in the Voyageur era.

 

[WingedPaladin]

Thank you for letting us know.

 

[DrewTate]

Yeah my political behavior actually said that most 'native americans' polled actually preferred to be called Indians.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well the problem is in Civ 4 there already ARE Indians, and Natives is too Generic. Although Native American is also technically too Generic, it is better than Native, especially if they want to include multiple (non Souix) leaders from the "Natives".

Assuming they are trying to make a civ covering not just the Souix, but all of the Natives north of Mexico, then Native Americans is probably the best, perhaps Amerindians might work (I've heard the term somewhere before)

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I'd prefer Amerindian or Sioux to Native American. It's too clunky to say, anyway.

We're forgetting something: there are "three" names for each civ: long name, short name, adjective, e.g., American Empire, America, American. So it could go something like "Native American Empire" (ugh), "Amerindians," "Amerindian."

Native American is a pc white person word that sounds like it was made up by a comittee

Very true! Funniest description yet. I always thought the Indians (oops) didn't really give a hoot what we called them; they were more ticked off that we took their land than anything else.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Rofl Native American Empire...

really off history there... Did native americans north of mexico even have natives?

 

[Slobadog]

Native American is a pc white person word that sounds like it was made up by a comittee.

Whats wrong with Native American. It is a very exact specific term that accuratly describes the original inhabitants of North and South America. We all agree that they are natives of the 2 continents, right?



In any event any name is better that that blasted Indian one. Its a name spawned by people's ignorance hundreds of years ago. Continuing to use that name when we know better just makes us all look like idiots who have no basic education.


The name byzantine thats used wrongly to describe the East Roman Empire also needs to die.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Someone said Byzantine is also a wrong term itself. The "byzantine empire" is apparently a wrong term as well. Byzantines considered themselves Romans, So did the East Roman Empire.

At least that's what i heard someone say, it might be wrong info though. If someone could, instead of yelling at me, just inform me what is actually true.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Since I happened to have studied a little about the Romans , here's what I'll tell you:

The Byzantine Empire was the Eastern Roman Empire which continued as a separate entity after the collapse of Western Rome in the 5th century. They continued to think of and style themselves as Romans right up until the end in 1453. However, to call it the "Roman Empire" is not exactly correct, either. By the time of Justinian, Eastern Rome was undergoing major changes that would be characteristically Byzantine, notably the full merger of Christianity and Imperial law and culture. (Plus there's the emergence of the Orthodox Church as opposed to the Catholics, which is a big division.) Byzantine civilization became very distinct from Roman civilization even though they were, ultimately, deeply interconnected. So I am fine with "Byzantine Empire." It's not anymore wrong than using the phrase "Greek civilization" to refer to the early non-unified city-states of Greece.

 

[3 EMS]

Whats wrong with Native American. It is a very exact specific term that accuratly describes the original inhabitants of North and South America. We all agree that they are natives of the 2 continents, right?



In any event any name is better that that blasted Indian one. Its a name spawned by people's ignorance hundreds of years ago. Continuing to use that name when we know better just makes us all look like idiots who have no basic education.


The name byzantine thats used wrongly to describe the East Roman Empire also must die.

I believe they crossed the ocean to get here. Just like us Europeans only earlier. They have type B blood and the skin flap in the eye. They and one other group of people share these traits. The Asians. Thats right, they migrated here from Asia during the last Ice Age. They are not native either.

I was born in California. That kind of makes me a Native American even though I have no Indian in me.

 

[TheLastOne36]

What about the term "first Nations"

 

[Mewtarthio]

What about the term "first Nations"

Also innacurate. Last I checked, most anthropologists believe that mankind originated in Africa, though whether or not they had developed anything that would be considered a "nation" is questionable.

I prefer the term PLWHPDSCE(NE)DSP: People Living in the Western Hemisphere Prior to the Discovery and Subsequent Conquest by Europeans (Norse Excluded) and the Descendants of Said People.

 

[Drewcifer]

What about the term "first Nations"

Too Canadian.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Also innacurate. Last I checked, most anthropologists believe that mankind originated in Africa, though whether or not they had developed anything that would be considered a "nation" is questionable.

I meant North American First nations.

And yes a bit to Canadian. In fact i think i learned it in my 2 years of my life in Toronto. So i guess it's sorta what the Canadians call native Americans.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Calling them anything with "Indian" would be a bit confusing. I'd rather use "American Indians" as well, but for the fact that we already have "Indians" from India.

I motion for a cursing of Christopher Columbus' lack of geographical knowledge.

 

[GoodGame]

It's very problematic to come up with a proper term but Native American, American Indian fits better than a variety of other terms, and comes up the most in 'official' organizations when I google it.
The Canadian "First Nations" name is cool, but I doubt it's been ratified by North American Indians either.

It think in this case that it's better to stay with one civ, and then allow a very large number of leaderheads.

I was just thinking about the Native American/Sioux civ.

There are a fair number of reservations and indians living in Minnesota. I don't know if people realize this but most indians in the US call themselves Indian or Native, not Native American. Native American is a pc white person word that sounds like it was made up by a comittee, I know some people who find it mildly insulting. Anyway the proper name for the Sioux is Dakota (or Lakota). Sioux is what the French Canadian fur trappers called them back in the Voyageur era.

As an Italian-American, I motion for cursing the composite ignorance of mankind instead.

Calling them anything with "Indian" would be a bit confusing. I'd rather use "American Indians" as well, but for the fact that we already have "Indians" from India.

I motion for a cursing of Christopher Columbus' lack of geographical knowledge.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I second the American Indians, if Sioux is not used. It rolls off the tongue easier.

 

[Swein Forkbeard]

I believe they crossed the ocean to get here. Just like us Europeans only earlier. They have type B blood and the skin flap in the eye. They and one other group of people share these traits. The Asians. Thats right, they migrated here from Asia during the last Ice Age. They are not native either.

I was born in California. That kind of makes me a Native American even though I have no Indian in me.

Actually, there is now some debate going on about where the First Americans came from. One theory even suggests they came from the Iberian Peninsula!

 

[.Shane.]

I teach History and typically use the term "Indian". I just can't bring myself to say "Native American" since that's also a misnomer.

The joke is, of course, that calling people of South and North America "Americans" is silly. In that "America" comes from the explorer Amerigo Vespucci. So, if we wanted to be properly named after the European who opened up the Western Hemisphere to European colonization, we'd all be Colombians.

 

[scy12]

I think the best terminology to use is not how Historians decided to name them but how they named themselfs in their language or if we want in a translation of the terminology they used in English. Other than that the name Native Americans for one tribe is also wrong for the usual reasons that were said.