Native Capital actually matters [ACCEPTED]

[raystuttgart]

Native Capital actually matters

We already had a discussion about Capitals here, but it was mostly about the "Colonial Captials": Capital actually matters (link)
So this here is kind of its "twin concept" that tries to consider how the Native version could be implemented.

So in short I would like to implement "Native Capitals" that matter for gameplay.
Which in fact was the case in Original Colonization of 1994.

So each Tribe / Native Nation will have a "Native Capitals" to start with.

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So what was the gameplay of Original Colonization of 1994 related to "Native Capitals"?
It was actually very simple and I also really do not want to achieve much more.

Native Capitals:

1) Will have a "Sun Symbol" next to their name in City Billboard
2) When conquered the Natives surrender (in a new DLL-Diplo-Event) *
3) When conquered it gives double amount of Gold
4) Talking to the Chief gives a bigger / special reward **

* When surrender is accepted all other diplo relations to other Nations are cancelled.
Player will get the choice to either

• demand gold for peace
• take slaves for peace
• spare them and declare peace
• refuse surrender and continue war

** In Original Colonization of 1994 it was simply double the amount of Gold.
But I would like to actually have something special here, i.e. getting a unique Unit.

• "Daughter of the Chief" --> better version of Converted Native (not using LbD)
• "Son of the Chief" --> mounted version of Native Mercenary (thus faster)
• "Native Scout" --> best Scout Unit in the game (giving more gold when talking to Native Villages)

Small remark:

After the first Native Capital of a Tribe is destroyed there will not be a second one.
This is supposed to prevent the Human Player to exploit this game mechanic.

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The concept may not seem big, but in total it is easily about 40 hours of effort.
But I think it is worth it because it may add a bit of additional immersion and flavour.

 

[Mr. ZorG]

"Best Scout of the Tribe" --> best Scout Unit in the game

in my opinion, by the time the player has an army capable of capturing the capital (and it, as a rule, is better protected than other native villages), Scout will not be relevant. In most cases. however, it is possible to create a new unique unit - Mounted Native Mercenary. I already tried to do this in my unpublished mod-mode, guided by this post. I liked it very much. just need to edit its characteristics.

 

[raystuttgart]

in my opinion, by the time the player has an army capable of capturing the capital

You would not get these unique Units by capturing / destryoing the Native Capital.
You could get them as a reward for talking to the Chief when you first discover it.

So the Native Capital does not have just effects during war.
It also has an effect for peaceful players since it has a special reward.

Those unique Units are related to this here:

4) Talking to the Chief gives a bigger / special reward **

 

[Mr. ZorG]

ah, I apologize.
then Scout will be useful, yes. but what do you say to adding the unit I mentioned?

 

[raystuttgart]

but what do you say to adding the unit I mentioned?

A "Mounted Native Mercenary" could be used instead the "Strongest Warrior of the Tribe."
(So it would be something like a faster Native Mercenary, which may be better than an overpowered fighter.)

I will adjust above.

 

[Tucker8]

in my opinion, by the time the player has an army capable of capturing the capital (and it, as a rule, is better protected than other native villages), Scout will not be relevant. In most cases. however, it is possible to create a new unique unit - Mounted Native Mercenary. I already tried to do this in my unpublished mod-mode, guided by this post. I liked it very much. just need to edit its characteristics.

I find Scouts quite useful in the late game, giving a seasoned scout the dragoon or cavalry profession allows these units to cross mountains, or is this changing in 4.0? (I'm currently playing New Hope, but I'm actually still scouting with my Scouts...)

 

[raystuttgart]

or is this changing in 4.0?

No it is not.

But there is a point in lategame, where you have scouted most of the map.
At that point scouts in general are not that useful anymore.

 

[Tucker8]

No it is not.

But there is a point in lategame, where you have scouted most of the map.
At that point scouts in general are not that useful anymore.

That's true of course, although I usually play on gigantic maps, so that always takes a while...

 

[ArchdukeLiet]

Great idea, introducing capitals with the capturing effects would be a real nice addition!

Coming to think of it, another possibility for a unit could be an 'interpreter' (derived from La Malinche/Maria). Perhaps that unit could also spawn from a non-capital native city.
Placing that unit in a city/capital could give a permanent bonus to the relationship (or something like that).

 

[modmod]

Historically the Spanish were famous about: build on the old (conquered) tribal (and class) system, and also their administration centres, sometimes as straightforward: Tenochtitlan -> Mexico City.

For centralised civilizations (Aztec, Inca, Maya) their capitals were very important, and carried fall, for other civilizations: simply no capital, or territory that important - eg. for others no matter if any gets captured/ razed/ whatever.

So what if just would exist in case of certain civilizations (where real/ immersive) and not for all?
But in their case with more importance, and also importance for the European powers which may build upon it?

 

[raystuttgart]

@modmod:

I want to keep my effort reasonable - thus not implement some exceptions there.
My time for modding is simply not unlimited ... thus concepts may sometimes simplify a bit.

Also it is often better for gameplay to have "straight forward rules" with no exceptions.
It makes everything a lot easier for players to understand and will prevent unnecessary bug reports.

Summary:

I described my concept and it was accepted like that. So that is what I still plan to implement.
If somebody else wants to have it more complex that person will neeed to invest the effort to implement it.

 

[Isabelxxx]

Sounds great. How capitals would be assigned on scenarios? European factions can land at any place (thus the first city is always placed at different zones), but what about natives? Would the capital be randomly assigned or hard-coded at a specific position on map?

 

[raystuttgart]

How capitals would be assigned on scenarios?

By WorldBuilder.

Technically I will use a "Placeholder Building" that is never visible on the City Screen / Map.
Technically this will allow the game to identify the City as Capital.

That can then be assigned by WorldBuilder, just like you would place a building in a City.
When placing it in a City, it will loop all the other Player Cities to check if there is already such a "Placeholder Building" and delete it.

I will most likely be reusing some Civ4BTS code.

Would the capital be randomly assigned or hard-coded at a specific position on map?

It is neither random nor hardcoded - there will be a specific logic for it.

After the Map generation logic / City placement logic (which is run for both Maps and MapScripts) a small additional logic will be called:
If there is no "Native Capital" already on the map (for a Native Player) it will give the ""Placeholder Building" to the Native Village with the highest Population.

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By the way, this is the same logic that will generate "Capitals" for Human Player in case he loses it / or has none.
(But there it will basically run at the beginning of every turn to see if he still has a capital. And it will instantly be called when his capital is conquered.)

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Summary:

Scenario makers can chose where to place the "Native Capital" by WorldBuilder.
Player can use this option of course anytime in the game as well.

Otherwise at game start the DLL logic will always assign it to the Native Village with the highest population.
(Unless it is not already found like potentially in a Fixed Scenario Map.)