Native Missions and Native Americans

Icaria909

Emperor
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Aug 3, 2008
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I have been playing the civilization games for years and the one thing i have discovered is that when i am not fully utilizing a game mechanic i usually lose out on alot of great benefits; In colonization i have am not yet sure though how to fully utilize the native missions and trade with the native americans.

In most of my games I just don't even bother going near native americans settlements as i am afraid they will declare war and destroy my flegdling colony. But most recently i tried to establish what has traditionally been New Spain and New Mexico as the spanish. I had ten cities, covered mexico, california, new mexico, texas, and central latin america. Most of my cities were around a population of four while my largest settelment was an 8 in 1700, and the only way that i was able to expand was by establishing around six missions with native americans who provided me with more then enough population to build my empire (not to mention with Bartolome de las casas). But in my last game i tried this same strategy but the native americans all declared war and i lost some seven cities ( only had an army of five units that were stuck campaigning in the yucaton peninsula).

This brings me to my question: Does anyone heavilly use the missions and trade with the native americans as a strategy to win? If anyone has strategies dealing with native missions and trade with the americans share with with us.
:goodjob:
 
Not as a strategy to win, but I create Missions in the closest villages to increase Native Converts, and trade with them to keep them happy. This has given me Defense Pacts with them on occasion.
 
The french are the best at using missions for native converts, get faster training times learning gathering skills in native villages and it doesnt effect relations as much when you expand into and buy their lands.

The spanish that you were playing are better suited to killing all the natives for gold and slave converts, not to mention the promotions for your military units.

If you want to prevent the indians from attacking you then you need to pay them gold for every tile of land you take from them, you need to keep a standing army and defenses that will discourage the indians from attacking, and you need to get the founding fathers that improve native relations. You can also generate alot of liberty bells and that will expand your borders allowing you to consume native villages, making that tile available for working in your city. The other option is to not build more than one city and not grow it very large, then they wont feel as threatened.

To trade with natives just move a ship or wagon into their village and click the money symbol. You should sell guns, horses, and trade goods to indians and buy things like silver, cotton, and fur if they are selling for a decent price.
 
thanks it's good advice, but i want to know if anyone bases a strategy off using them. I know that when i was playing as the spanish i should have been killing them off, but i was using Simon Bolivar who's special ability allows my cities cultural borders to destroy native cities. usually that works, but if i expand too fast the natives catch up to me eventually and i face a huge indian insurrection.

The French would be really good to use for using missions because of the extra conversion rates, but mssions seems to much of an opportunity for every civ to be beneficial for just the french. Besides, historically speaking only the english made it their mission to destroy native's settlements(except their american cousins); even the spanish consolidated their rule in mexico and california with Missions and Presidios(forts). So, has anyone used a lot missions as a way to keep a steady increase in population, or does everyone think that that would take too much time and resources to be beneficial?

Also, How big of an army do you guys have to defeat indians with in turn 100 on normal speed, because at best i may have two cannons and a veteran soldier and these units can easily be overwhelmed by a semi-intelegint AI?
 
I generally keep one cannon in each colony for defence but I don't have a standing army as such. However I do have guns stockpiled so if I need to fight I can arm my colonists.
 
I play the french guy with the +100% convert bonus, and converts make up the majority of my population in most games. I managed to gather a few tips that can help anyone get along a little better with their native friends, or at least put them to a profitable use.
*always talk to all the natives for the gifts they give, and do it first, and with a seasoned scout preferably.
* Make missions in all of the neighboring tribes to keep them from getting pissed
*Some Indians have a trait which doubles the convert rate. this really makes missions worthwhile.
*Sell distant Indians guns early on, use the improved relations to turn them on your enemy. You will also in turn make a huge profit which could land you 3X more guns then you started with.
*With a FF that increases Indian relations you can securely sell neighboring Indians guns, and combined with a defensive pact they can help you fight the king! Indians are better then colonists with guns with a hefty forest attack bonus to boot.
*The best tribes to conquer are the Inca's and the Aztecs, even as the French, unless they are your neighbors it is probably worth killing these two tribes for the experience and money(in long games).
*If a neighboring tribe doesn't like you give him tribute of 500-1000 gold until you go up a couple points in relations. You will easily make this money back selling guns to them later on when you want them to fight the king for you.
*Train Indians at local tribes before setting them off into society. don't use schools to educate them. It is fastest to give them a useless profession at a tribe, and clear specialty, for then you can immediately give them guns at the nearest town rather then waiting for the terrible school system to educate them.
*I never tried, but in theory with a ton of missionaries and a couple FFs for +%50 convert strength and +1 convert movement you could maybe use them in place of riflemen, or as good suicide soldiers. again i never tried it, but it could be fun.
 
This might be a dumb question, but when you first meet a tribe they tell you which resource they most desire (best price?)... How can you find that information back again though?

After a few villages I've completely lost track of what they all want to trade for, and I can't seem to find that info back, either through diplomacy or in any of the advisor screens.
 
This is one of the few things they actually improved from Col1. When you look carefully each tribe will tell you what experts they teach, and a small circular symbol beside that represents what trade goods they desire.
Actually its less useful then you think, since cash goods like cigars normally make better profit in europe (though its still a good way to improve relations). All tribes will pay top dollar for guns, horses, and to a lesser extent trade goods even if they don't say they desire it.
If your not being friendly to the locals consider carefully who you sell guns to, but later on they could point them at the king instead of you if you play your cards right
 
Thanks Teks, really good advice. I just tried doing some of this on my newest game as the french in a marathon game on huge western map. By turn 1700 I had completely colonized what is traditionally considered New France, with quebec and New Orleans (both in historical spots) with populations at 13. I had seven native american cities with missions, and at one point i found it more effecient to trade with the natives than the europeans, as it only takes a few turns to sell fur coats and guns to the natives, versus the thirty turns roundtrip voyage to europe and back. At about that time, the english had colonized the eastern seaboard (so happy this came close to the seven years war of 1756), and i provoked a war with them. they had an army twice as large as mine, with more industries then me, but i had three defensive pacts with the indians. with their help i burned down one of their cities, reconquered the ohio valley, captured two cities in the caribean, two in south america, and left them with one city hugging the coast of the atlantic. because of the natives, i was an economic and militaristic juggernaut in the western Hemisphere. Easilly as powerful as america in 1914.......
 
Nicely done Icaria. Let those tribes get their hands dirty for you. Make sure to tell us how well your empire fares against the king's army. The ultimate test :-D.
Maybe if you get bored you can try to get the 2 FF's that give the converts increased combat stats(+50%strength, +1 movement). On paper I think that means they will have 3 strength, and 2 movement. Anyway it could save you a lot of guns, and offer continuous reinforcements from missionaries. I imagine you can recruit quite a lot of converts on a huge map. The thing is I'm not sure if converts can attack other units, or if they are defense only. Sadly, I'm out of town, so I wont be trying this out anytime soon.
anyway, good luck!
 
I think you can make converts into scouts, with the ff would be 3 str and 3 movement. And they would be able to attack, and if you cant do that just spread out converts to every tile around your city like landmines the kings ref will have to kill to reach your good units.
 
Ah yes! Old-fashioned meat shields!
 
I just finished the game.......
i lost, but it was the greatest game i have ever played in any civilization game. It was reminicent of civilization III with my twenty cities, and two giant armies and thier allies fighting in an epic struggle to survive......

I had about twenty five military units by the the time of the revolution. My allies (the indians) had about forty units altogether too, with the king who had around five hundred troops. they first sailed to the west indies as those cities had populations of fifteen each (they were my economic centers for sugar and mining). they captured those easily enough because i didn't have a navy large enough to counter attack. they eventually sailed troops to New Orleans with a population of twelve. New Oleans was my second largest city after Quebec(Pop at 14) that was left in my hands and i used it to trade my industrial goods to the indians situated in modern day brazil. i moved my army down south to protect it while my allies took up positions near quebec and chicago(actual location at pop of 8). I defeated two waves of kings troops near New Orleans when the kings troops surprised and killed my army of seven units in south america (had two mining cities of pop 4 each there to facilitate my missionaries in south america) by attacking and capturing both cities.

By this point though i was confident that i could still win because i had never wasted my small but growing navy of three ship o the lines in quebec. but royal forces landed in montreal (pop 5) two squares from quebec and started to march on quebec. My troops had their hands full with an earlier wave assualting new orleans, but my indian allies crushed the kings forces after ten turns of intensive fighting, with quebec coming near collapse from lack of food (king sent another wave to surround the city and starve it out). i was still in the war, although my indian allies had lost half of their entire forces.

To compound my bad fortune, i had figured that the increased liberty bell production would increase my resource production but i didn't realize that my borders would soon increase to such a size that my borders would begin to destroy my indian allies settlements (when i owned enough territory around their cities they ceded them to me and they were destroyed ?!). because my allies lost a lot of their cities to my borders i lost out on a huge amount of population growth to support my troops. I had previously used my missions in brazil to acquire new civilians (had three missions there), but they were cut off from new france because of the king's blockade. by about 1750, i still had new france in my possession but i only had an army of fifteen units left, my native allies no longer had the manpower to effectively help me like in the defense of quebec, and i could no longer rely on converted natives to increase my cities populations, and i had no one to trade with ( dutch resided somewhere in the south america, spanish in southern brazil, and a single english settlement on eastern seabord.)

I knew that new orleans was only a crucial city because i had used it to trade with the west indies and south america, but now that both were conquered, new orleans did not have as much strategic value, so i pulled my forces north to chicago. New Orleans fell the next turn to the king's forces. chicago was the most strategic city at this point, it had an armory, magazine stash, blacksmith, stall for horses and ranch, as well as a dockyard, and it was positioned between my settlements in the north and the west and east. It held all my guns and horses and i used three wagons to transport war supplies to parts of new france that were under attack, converted soldiers from cities, and counterattacked the kings forces, and for a while it worked.......

A fresh force of royalists from new orleans moved up the mississippi, taking two more settlements and attacked chicago, while i was dealing with a previous wave of soldiers near quebec. next turn chicago fell, and i lost roughly twelve hundred guns, eight hundred horses, and all my wagons (about four, made a new one in quebec and brought it there a turn earlier). i quickly counterattacked in new orleans to threaten their supply lines, and after taking out one soldier i recaptured the city. and to my surprise I KILLED TWO SHIPS OF THE KING'S NAVY!!!! The king pulled his forces back from chicago and postitioned them in a fort i founded along the mississippi, and i moved my infantry and cannons next to the city while moving my dragoons to chicago and retaking it with minimal losses. after a lengthy siege, bombarding, and querrilla warfare, i ousted the royalists from the fort.

By this point though i had exhausted my entire population for soldiers. i could no longer produce enough weapons for new soldiers, i had no horses, and no citizens to convert into soldiers. at this point quebec was my largest city with five people. the king's forces moved into the chicago region again, captured the city after taking out ten of my units. I pulled my last five units out to quebec to await the final onslaught. I felt like the confederates in the civil war. I wonder if this is how Robert E. Lee felt?

In the next ten turns the rest of new france fell to the king's forces except for montreal, quebec, and a city called ontario (mining town with a pop of two, and one soldier guarding it). the royalists captured montreal next, which was a major blow because i had built the city as a food producing giant to keep up steady growth in quebec. without montreal the rest of quebec starved. i pulled all of my citizens and soldeir from ontario and awaited the king's forces in quebec. his ships pulled up to the city, and i sent out my three ship o the lines to meet them. I killed one, but then lost the rest of m ships. Their forces took up position along a hill and bombarded the city to bits. with ten turns remaining before the end of the game, they captured my last city.

The three things i learned from this is to ****** territorial growth with indian settlements because the indians can become a major asset in any war, as well as don't waste the resources building a navy because the king will always beat you there, and finally, don't leave all your resources in a single city because if it is captured, it can be your down fall. If anyone from reading this can give any more suggestions on how to have better handled the situation especially with the early stages of the war when i could count on my indian allies to help out, give suggestions. Also, is it beneficial to rely on the indians in a defensive war, or should i have pretended as if they didn't exist and instead spread my forces out? I don't know. It's hard to rely on the indians for any military strategy.....
 
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