Native training takes longer each time?

[ModernKnight]

Is it just me, or does training provided by natives take successively longer with each unit they train? It seems like it went a lot faster at first.

If this is true, then does this happen as a function of a particular native town one trains at, or does it apply to all towns owned by a native faction, even ones not used before? Or does it apply to all natives on the map, period?

This is with AoD2.

Thanks if you can help!

MK​

 

[drjest2000]

I just noticed this happening a few nights ago. from what I can tell, it is per culture. So if you "wear out" the first one, you move on to the second, and so on. I honestly think it's a cheesy game mechanic built in to slow down your growth and thus lengthen the game by the coders at Firaxis

 

[kaibayashi]

Yeah, i think this is the same in vanilla tho. It is a bit weird tho, i think someone explained the reasoning to me before although i forget what it was now and dont think i agreed with it! Imo I think the time should stay the same but the natives stop training you if you abuse it.

 

[Akrux]

Yes the same mechanic is used in many places in Colonization. The first cannon you buy in Europe is one price but each successive cannon costs more than the previous one. The reasoning is for game balance. If players try to develop an extremely focused strategy they run into diminishing returns. That first privateer you bought was cheap but the tenth privateer is much cheaper made in one of your colonies than bought from Europe.

As Indian villages get slower at training your colonists you send them farther and farther away. Eventually you reach the point where it is faster to train them at your home schoolhouses. However the Indian training is always free and can teach professions like sugar planter or scout that are unavailable in a schoolhouse or university.

 

[Wheldrake]

However the Indian training is always free and can teach professions like sugar planter or scout that are unavailable in a schoolhouse or university.

Actually, once you have one of the above specialists in your training town, you can train anything you like, even veteran soldiers. The trick is getting the first sugar planter (or whatever).

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[ModernKnight]

Kai,

I did some testing, and the only thing that seems to matter is the town.

It doesn't matter if you've done a lot of training in other towns or with the same faction, and it doesn't matter how much the faction likes you... all that matters is how many units a given native town has trained. I've trained 1 or 2 units at 7 different towns on my current map, and they all took 12 turns for the first one, 18 for the second one.

Also, in a single test (so I can't be sure it wasn't a fluke), using a single native town a bunch of times went like this: 12, 18, 30, 45, and 66 turns. So it starts getting long by the third trainee, and much longer afer that - long enough to warrant long trips across the map (and maybe you've had time to make roads by then).

That progression doesn't make sense at first glance to me because the difference in training times is 6, 12, 15, and 21 turns. I can't think of a numerical progression right off hand that looks like that. And I only did it once, so I may have made a mistake and/or maybe there is some third factor that influences it.

Ok - MK

 

[drjest2000]

MK, I assume you are playing on marathon speed, because this multiplies all times and volumes by 3.

Using a Leader that is not Cooperative and a Native Leader that is not Mentor, the pattern I have seen on normal speed is 4, 5, 7 for the first three trainees. That is counting the first turn as the one where the trainee begins training, then graduating at the beginning of the 4th, 5th, and 7th turn respectively. So you could say 3, 4, 6 if you do not include the graduation turn. Based only on these numbers I'd say the pattern for this is X + 25% rounding all fractional values to the next higher integer, so:

4; 4 + (4 x 0.25) = 5; 5 + (5 x 0.25) = 6.25 ~~ 7

or maybe 33% rounding values of 0.49 and less down to the next integer

or maybe even

3, 3+1=4, 4+2=6


I think there must be variable factors that are not clear to me, because the pattern is not regular but this is definitely influenced by known factors like native learn times in the UnitInfos XML, number of colonists being trained simultaneously at the native village, and so on. There is also likely a factor based on the size of the village and something to do with the Native Leader that isn't obvious, maybe the BaseAttitude, maybe something less obvious.

Game speed would probably change the rounding somewhat as fractional numbers might round out in favor of the player on slower speeds.

 

[ModernKnight]

You're right, Jest: Marathon, I'm not Cooperative (you mean French, right?), and Natives are not Mentors. (I'm playing small sandbox games with hand-picked tribes.)

Interesting equation... I'll see how it fits. Times from marathon games might pin it down better if there's a lot of rounding involved. Then again, depending on how they did the rounding, it could make it even less precise.

If I get in a mood, I will test the game time for lots of training from one village... but for now, I've already learned that that's a bad idea IRL.

I have yet to see it be based on the size of the village, but I'll watch more closely. I have also found that if 2 units ask to be trained the same turn, the first 1 takes 12 turns, the second one takes 18... is this inconsistent with your "this is definitely influenced by known factors like ... number of colonists being trained simultaneously at the native village"?

Oh, as for including graduation turns - I'm just substracting the turn they went into training, from the turn they graduate. So I guess my numbers don't include the extra turn you mentioned. (If I'm understanding right?)