Native Tribes joining a War between Colonial Nations [IMPLEMENTED]

Does this feature sound good?


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raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
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Hm, ok. :think:

I will try to implement the following DLL-Diplo-Event.

If there is a war between 2 Colonial Powers, a Dialogue with a Native Player will pop-up.
He offers you to help you in your war against your Colonial enemy if you also help him crush his Native neighbour.

If you accept, you will end up in a large war between Colonies and Natives.
If you refuse, the war will simply continue as it is and stay "Colonies only".

Also if you accept, both Colonial Powers will get a few Native Mercenaries.
(And the Natives will each get one "Great Warrior".)

Attitudes of Natives to the European Players will of course change accordingly.
(So while you improve relations to one Native Player, you might ruin those to the other.)

----

Conditions:

* At least e.g. 100 turns into the game
* All 4 Players must have met already
* All 4 Players are on the same continent
* Diplomacy conditions will also be checked
* May happen only once or twice a game

----

So basically you could see e.g. a War like this:

English + Sioux
vs.
French + Iroquois

----

Comment on AI:

AI can and will get this event as well.
It will simply check if the Native that want to join him are stronger than the others.
If that check is positive, he will accept the offer and also start such kind of war.
 
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DMP

Chieftain
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Jun 22, 2021
Messages
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No sure I understand it correctly, but Natives get mercenaries too and that 1 Great Warrior plus, or only Great Warrior? I think Native should get some units as then that could turn to really great big war :) .But anyway very nice idea how to make game interesting , sometimes I have games when not often AI fights against each others, even I check option agrresive AI. If there are 2 powers European in wars against ,they could maybe get some ships(that would be plus Natives not get) so combat also happen in sea ? And yeap that s also good if war has longer condition must be active til can be made peace.
 

raystuttgart

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The involved Native Players will just get a Great Warrior - because I do not want to unnecessarily bloat the amount of troops.
The involved Colonial Powers will get a few (e.g. 2) Native Mercenaries - so he notices that actually something happened.

A war with 4 Nations involved should already have enough troops fighting.
(Also I do not want to "beam units out of thin air" without real immersive explanation.)

Also I do not want to give too many goodies to the players (like e.g. free Ships).
The decision to confirm or to decline should still be hard to make.

-----

I am not trying to implement a "major midterm crisis".
This is still supposed to be "just a random flavour event."

Also it may be triggered a couple of times a game because there is more than 1 Colonial Nation.
Thus it is better not to overexagerate and keep this event on reasonable levels not creating dozens of Units each time.

-----

Summary:
This is just a random "flavour event" like all other DLL-Diplo-Events - potentially happening more than once.
I am not planning to overexagerate, because it could otherwise become very annoying soon.
(Also it is not supposed to allow a player to get overpowered by a dozen of Units.)
 
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DMP

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
7
Ok understand :), I am sure any version of this event is just a positive adition to game 👍and Natives just get some goodies also :), I know they role is limited in the game,but they still were active part of European colonization America ..
 

DMP

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 22, 2021
Messages
7
When we play multiplayer, there are possibility how to get easy units when king ask you join war. Then of course the war not really happening,just you got free units and then you made peace and that s all. But that event is how it is,but if we talk about longer type war.. So yeap as any more units you could get by these events, you become more stronger, there is not possibility if the war event was for 100 turns, units you get would lost after 100 turns,so some kind limitations to aquire easiest units for free?
 

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
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.. units you get would lost after 100 turns ...
Almost impossible to implement with reasonable efforts.
(Also most players would not like to lose Units again.)

Please let me implement a feature that is just about 8 hours of effort.
I have no intention to spend 40+ hours into this.

My time for modding is also limitted. ;)
(There is no need to make it more complicated.)

--------

Summary:
I have described what I am offering to implement.

--------

So can we PLEASE just leave it like that.
 
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raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
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Would it be possible to limit that event not to just "having met" and "on the same continent" but to neighbours, whose cultural borders touch each other?
I need to see how performant a check for "borders touch" can be done. :dunno:
(It is definitely less performant than "on same continent" though.)

Summary:
Technically it is of course possible - but I don`t want to waste too much performance.
(I need to keep the "in between turn times" on reasonable levels and avoid compuations that take too long.)
 
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Red velvet

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 12, 2020
Messages
20
The involved Native Players will just get a Great Warrior - because I do not want to unnecessarily bloat the amount of troops.
The involved Colonial Powers will get a few (e.g. 2) Native Mercenaries - so he notices that actually something happened.

A war with 4 Nations involved should already have enough troops fighting.
(Also I do not want to "beam units out of thin air" without real immersive explanation.)

Also I do not want to give too many goodies to the players (like e.g. free Ships).
The decision to confirm or to decline should still be hard to make.

-----

I am not trying to implement a "major midterm crisis".
This is still supposed to be "just a random flavour event."

Also it may be triggered a couple of times a game because there is more than 1 Colonial Nation.
Thus it is better not to overexagerate and keep this event on reasonable levels not creating dozens of Units each time.

-----

Summary:
This is just a random "flavour event" like all other DLL-Diplo-Events - potentially happening more than once.
I am not planning to overexagerate, because it could otherwise become very annoying soon.
(Also it is not supposed to allow a player to get overpowered by a dozen of Units.)
Could we have the native tribe demand "Guns" and tools to seal the deal. This would be in addition to the great warrior. Maybe enough to arm 1 or 2 braves. The rest of the "guns" would be consumed in arming the native mercenaries.
 

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
8,867
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Ok guys,

this feature is now fully implemented. :)
(Please forgive all spelling errors in the texts - I know it may be improved.)

------

Actually there are quite a lot of conditions for this to tigger.
(I really had problems triggering it without test balancing.)

Most important conditions:

1) Ongoing War with another Colony
2) Your potential ally Native must like you and dislike your Colonial enemy
3) Your potential enemey Native must dislike you and like your Colonial enemy
4) You must have MUSKETS and HORSES stored so you can pay the Natives
5) The game must already have progressed until around midgame
6) All 4 involved Nations must have contact to each other.
(For the Natives that also means "same continent".)

So yeah, it will be pretty rare and maybe happen once or twice a game.
(It is possible that you might never actually see it if conditions do not match.)

---------

Gameplay:

If you accept, you will trigger something like a "French and Indian War" (aka "7 Year War").

1) Attitudes will change accordingly - which may have long lasting consequences.
2) Defensive Pacts between the Colonies and their Native Allies will form.
3) And of course, the parties will declare War accordingly to each other.
4) The Weapons and Horses promised to the Natives will be transfered.
5) You will get a few Native Mercenaries

-----
It is of course also XML-configurable.
Spoiler :

Code:
    <!-- French Native War -->
    <Define>
        <DefineName>MIN_ROUND_COLONIES_AND_NATIVE_ALLIES_WAR</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>TIMER_COLONIES_AND_NATIVE_ALLIES_WAR</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>100</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>BASE_CHANCE_COLONIES_AND_NATIVE_ALLIES_WAR</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>100</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>WEAPONS_DEMANDED_COLONIES_AND_NATIVE_ALLIES_WAR</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>200</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>HORSES_DEMANDED_COLONIES_AND_NATIVE_ALLIES_WAR</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>100</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>UNITCLASS_NATIVE_WARRIORS</DefineName>
        <DefineTextVal>UNITCLASS_NATIVE_MERC</DefineTextVal>
    </Define>
    <Define>
        <DefineName>NATIVE_WARRIORS_RECEIVED_COLONIES_AND_NATIVE_ALLIES_WAR</DefineName>
        <iDefineIntVal>3</iDefineIntVal>
    </Define>

-----

Comment:

This feature was actually much more tricky than expected and thus also took me much longer than expected.
(I needed about 4 hours only to search and fix a single very annoying bug that was triggered in the exe.)

In summary I have worked on this like 10 hours in total.
(I was expecting maybe something like 6 hours max ... but bugfixing added several hours on top.)

-----

 

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raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
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Messages
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Stuttgart, Germany
Here some more images, what happens when you accept.
(Messages at the top of the Screen and resulting relations in Diplomacy Screen.)

By the way:
This is the only time in the game that you may see Native Tribes waging War against each other.
(They otherwise never do, since the logic tells them that there is no reason for it.)
Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG
Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

 
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