native villages should not be able to train converted natives

[minger]

As it is right now, everytime I get a converted native, I have him re-live in the village to train him to be an expert-whatever, then clear his speciality so that he can be "regular" colonist. This is both un-fun and absurdly unrealistic. Converted natives should not be able to be re-trained in NATIVE villages.

I'm more torn on whether they should be allowed to be trained in schools though..

 

[brianshapiro]

I'm more torn on whether they should be allowed to be trained in schools though..

Heh.. training a native in school = stealing their heritage

 

[historix69]

I think it is ok to train a convert to become an expert in a native profession ...

The game could remember that he is a native, allthough this is kind of racism ... so when you clear his profession he would become native again.

If you would use him in a profession where natives get a bonus like farming, fishing, he would get the native bonus too, except if he's already expert.

On the other side ... making a difference between native and white colonists might increase micro-management even more ...

 

[Reveilled]

As it is right now, everytime I get a converted native, I have him re-live in the village to train him to be an expert-whatever, then clear his speciality so that he can be "regular" colonist. This is both un-fun and absurdly unrealistic. Converted natives should not be able to be re-trained in NATIVE villages.

I'm more torn on whether they should be allowed to be trained in schools though..

I don't see why they shouldn't be able to be trained in native villiages, or what's unrealistic about it. Training the native at his own villiage or another is still an investment of time, and those periods get longer the more people you train at the villiages, so it's not like that training is a total freebie, no more so than training a free colonist there.

I can agree that them becoming free colonists after you clear the specialty is something that should maybe be changed, but I don't think natives should be incapable of being educated. That's unrealistic.

 

[ikki]

I think it is ok to train a convert to become an expert in a native profession ...

The game could remember that he is a native, allthough this is kind of racism ... so when you clear his profession he would become native again.

If you would use him in a profession where natives get a bonus like farming, fishing, he would get the native bonus too, except if he's already expert.

On the other side ... making a difference between native and white colonists might increase micro-management even more ...

Nah, its called integration.. instead of trying to go for special favors the indian wont act out and instead behaves like everyone else.. and everyone else threats them like anyone else.. and thus an end to racism

 

[tour86rocker]

I'm torn. The way the game is currently, you'd instead send them to your colony, put them in a school, choose a free profession for them, clear that specialty, and send them back to their settlement to train sugar planting instead?

 

[minger]

I guess the bottom line is that, after training the native in something (whether at village or school), you shouldn't be able to then "clear speciality" and make them a white colonist. There's just something weird about that (especially after a village trains them.... I can see how after they are schooled by the colonists, they gain the basic skills of a colonist, but at a village?)

 

[historix69]

What about an additional option :

You have a mission in native settlement which teaches Expert-Something ... When a new convert is ready, the game asks if you want to have the Expert-Something or rather the plain native convert ...

 

[LordGek]

As it is right now, everytime I get a converted native, I have him re-live in the village to train him to be an expert-whatever, then clear his speciality so that he can be "regular" colonist. This is both un-fun and absurdly unrealistic. Converted natives should not be able to be re-trained in NATIVE villages.

I'm more torn on whether they should be allowed to be trained in schools though..

Dale and Snoopy369 agree with you, check out their Unofficial Patch Mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=293253
(one of the changes under the Units Section)

 

[ikki]

What about an additional option :

You have a mission in native settlement which teaches Expert-Something ... When a new convert is ready, the game asks if you want to have the Expert-Something or rather the plain native convert ...

would be a really nice option

 

[Knaken]

Training native converts presented me with a very strange situation:

I gained a native convert from a village and decided to train him to cotton planter right away. After he was finished i tried to move him to my own colony but then he was killed because he was somehow "offending" the natives. (I guess it's one of those random things where colonists get killed for breaking sacred taboo's). Weird...

 

[minger]

Training native converts presented me with a very strange situation:

I gained a native convert from a village and decided to train him to cotton planter right away. After he was finished i tried to move him to my own colony but then he was killed because he was somehow "offending" the natives. (I guess it's one of those random things where colonists get killed for breaking sacred taboo's). Weird...

Whoa--- weird --- first of all, I've never had a situation where a colonist was killed for "offending" a tribe... (That sounds somewhat interesting, though, then again, all the intersting elements from Col1 were taken out in this version so I'm surprised ). In any case, if that happened, then it shows how weird the system is in that whenever you educate/train a native convert it basically becomes a white person...

In any case I"m glad Dale/Snoopy fixed that in the patch

 

[player1 fanatic]

Sure this thing is weird.

But then, why would you do it?

By training native you already increase time needed to train next colonist in same village. Why do it on purpose to clear his speciallity? You gain nothing.

 

[nate895]

Sure this thing is weird.

But then, why would you do it?

By training native you already increase time needed to train next colonist in same village. Why do it on purpose to clear his speciallity? You gain nothing.

You gain the possibility of a future soldier. That is the only advantage I can think of, and that is only worth it if you have enough of that type of specialist, and really need soldiers, bad.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Still, you don't need to clear speciality for that, Let him stay expert farmer, cotton planter or whatever...

 

[tour86rocker]

tbh, some of this comes off as slightly racist. Why would it be "weird" for a native to gain equal standing with a "white" colonist. Just be careful with how you word things, I'm sure you all mean well.

 

[Knaken]

Sure this thing is weird.

But then, why would you do it?

By training native you already increase time needed to train next colonist in same village. Why do it on purpose to clear his speciallity? You gain nothing.

Because i needed a cotton planter with them not being available in europe and all.

 

[player1 fanatic]

That's Ok. I was talking about "clearing the specility" of just trained native to get free colonist from him. That's what stoke me as pretty much counterproductive.

 

[AmazonQueen]

tbh, some of this comes off as slightly racist. Why would it be "weird" for a native to gain equal standing with a "white" colonist. Just be careful with how you word things, I'm sure you all mean well.

Within the time period of the game they weren't treated as equal by any of the colonies. It isn't racist to want to accurately reflect history.

 

[CaptainVW]

It's about the American Dream.

A converted native, a petty criminal, an indentured servant, a free colonist... What do they all have in common?

They all lack a trade.

Once ANY colonist acquires a skill/trade, they gain equal status in the colony. It doesn't matter who you're born to in America - it matters what you do, and I feel a Neil Diamond song coming on.

Anyway, as far as clearing their status to be soldiers, once they've proven their worth as equals in the Colonial economy, why wouldn't they then be able to fight as such, either as Expert Farmers or giving up their livelihoods and fighting as Free Colonists? Hasn't their (even perhaps brief) stint as a colonial specialist granted them equal rights?

OUR history is full of denials of native/ethnic rights. Do we HAVE to follow that in a game *based* on our history?

Maybe we can choose to convert the natives, accept them as equal citizens and Seasoned Scouts, and enlist their equal involvement in our shared struggle for freedom against our tyrannical European overlords.

I mean, you CAN brutalize the natives, if you like.

Just sayin', you DO have options in the game.