1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Natural History (Artifacts) are really annoying!

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by King Phaedron, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. King Phaedron

    King Phaedron Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    I ran into a problem in my Norway game. Since I build only Holy Sites with Choral Music I never build Theater Square. Culture was very far ahead in this game, and when I got Natural History, a lot of my land was still not purchased, or otherwise developed.

    Artifacts began to appear in locations I had singled out for Neighborhoods. This is a huge problem if you aren't playing a Civilization that builds Theater Square. Now, my city can't get the housing it needs unless I build a Theater Square in one of my newer cities, along with Amphitheater and Archaeological Museum just to get rid of the damn things so that I can work and use my land!

    Needless to say, this was going to take forever. So I tried to find out at what turn I finished researching Natural History. There isn't anything in the logs that actually tell you, but luckily I only had to go back 3 turns. So I went back and started building the neighborhood. Next turn, Artifacts appear in new locations in my land.

    I had to reset about 3 times and go back to use builders or begin production on districts to avoid having them wind up littered with artifacts and unusable. I wasted several builder charges and lost out on chopping several woods because of this, and still had to delay discovery of Natural History for a long time.

    What happens when an AI or another player gets to NaturalHistory first? Do all Artifacts in the world then appear, like in Civ 5? If so, that is really bad news. If there is a cultural runaway in the game, who reaches Natural History very early in the game, it has the potential to ruin quite a few cities, and those Civilizations who are behind won't even be able to build Museums to deal with them.

    Its really lame that you have to build a museum before you can even make an Archaeologist. I understand why this was done, as there would be no place to put them, and unlike Civ 5, Landmark option does not exist. I just really wish that at the very least Artifacts would not spawn in tiles that are already owned.

    If an Artifact spawns in a tile I haven't purchased, that could still be annoying, but it's fair enough to where it wouldn't really bother me.

    After the horrible experience, I had to make this post to denounce CIV 6 because of the Artifacts, and I learned to avoid Natural History like the plague from now on, but as the Civic is connected with Water Parks, I don't avoid it for too long. Making my cities Artifact proof takes a lot of time and effort.

    I would probably avoid it completely on Multiplayer until very late in the game, but then again, I'm not sure if someone else finds it first that it messes me up. So I don't know. It's very annoying and I'm very unhappy with this, as I do not like to build Theater Squares with most Civilizations I play, and if I do build any I will almost always make Museum instead of Art. Artifacts are free, whereas Great People tend to cost faith.

    It doesn't make sense the way this was implemented. I mean, how many times has someone dug up something in their backyard or found an artifact by accident in an area that is already developed? I should be able to build a neighborhood on an artifact and still dig it up later.

    Making the artifacts appear in undeveloped tiles that you own, and you can't place district or use builder, is really messed up and annoying. I almost rage quit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  2. jddods

    jddods Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Location:
    New Zealand
    You could build one TS, Museum, one Archaeologist and dig then sell, rinse & repeat.
     
    leandrombraz and Pietato like this.
  3. King Phaedron

    King Phaedron Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Messages:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, that's a good plan. I forgot you can sell great works, so that one museum would be viable. Most of the time you need them for culture, it just didn't factor in for the strategy in this game, but thank you for reminding me.
     
  4. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,383
    Having no other way to get rid of the ruins is indeed annoying. But if they would only spawn on unclaimed land there would be very few, and it wouldn't make much sense.
    But they don't appear for you if another civ reaearches the civic first, it works just like strategic resources that way.

    Neighbourhoods stink, the risk for partisans from spy missions is too big. They can wreak havoc on your traderoutes and they activate before you can even respond.
    I stopped building them long ago. Unless next to a spot that will already have a spy anyway but they are often low appeal.

    And I would be very happy if New Deal was not tied to democracy...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  5. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,716
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Why do you research natural history earlier than neighborhoods?
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    10,172
    as @Tech Osen states, you do not see them or are hindered by them until you research them.

    A good clue as to where they will be is where you had battles in the past. So if barbs approach and you are happy you can defeat them outside your lands, move outside your lands.

    Building and theming 1 archaeological museum is inspirational and does pump your culture up so it is good defence against an enemy CV and there is a strat around selling artefacts because as long as your museum is not full, your archaeologist keeps digging up artefacts. One could therefore consider this an advantage for you as the AI does not appear to clean up artefacts in the same way. The advantage in MP is not so great unless going for a CV.

    If in fear of rock bands the archaeologist is useful for parking on a wonder but the patch changes to rock bands made them stronger not weaker apart from the Album Art promotion because they can use lots of districts to better effect so it is hard to defend them all and an archaeologist is an expensive way to do so.

    Certainly another sort of workaround is pre-placing a wonder/district where you want it if artefacts are soon to be discovered. As @Lily_Lancer says, neighbourhoods first is often more sensible if you are determined to build these spy magnets.

    And I can see both sides of the coin when it comes to sites. IRL developing over them damages/loses them but as soon as it is known there is something there development stops... but this is a first world idea, 3rd world counties will just dump the artefacts down a ravine or they just disappear through the shady night raiders that sell them on the black market.
     
    Ownsya likes this.
  7. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,383
    It was my go-to strategy to avoid researching Civil Engineering because it made Limes obsolete (even after the Urban Defense ability was moved to Steel) before I got all my walls up. I think this got finally fixed though. Have to double check tonight.
    And you don't have to tell me that Renaissance Walls are inefficient or whatever. My play style differs a lot from yours.
     
  8. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    191
    I think not building Theater Squares is rather sketchy for any build. But yeah, don't research Natural History until you've developed your land.
     
  9. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,383
    For me personally it works best if science, culture and faith are a bit in balance. Totally ignoring one of those usually doesn't end well. I do feel faith is a bit too important lately though, it can work miracles for whatever you're doing. Whether it's buying GPs, rockbands or military units through the Grand Master's Chapel.
     
  10. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Messages:
    307
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    or just develop all your land first. (lumber mills, farms, whatever) you can remove the improvements later if you need/want to.

    I try to get a few archy museums ready myself. For the new and conquered cities. :)
     
  11. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    191
    That's interesting. I tend to skip faith, probably because I learned how to play this game in Vanilla, when faith/religion was really weak. I recognize faith is a strong resource now, and I use it when I can get it (usually through underhanded means like Earth Goddess). I just reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally don't like having to sink 1-2 district slots super early in the game into religion to get it the "natural" way (founding a religion). I don't generally miss it, except it makes a few inspirations almost impossible to get. It is a 'nice to have once in awhile' resource for me.

    One of these days I'll get around to trying a game to see if it is worth building a Holy Site when I haven't founded a religion. I don't have high hopes for such a playstyle as you miss out on founder beliefs and Holy Sites don't generate any GPPs after all the religions are gone, but maybe the value of raw faith is high enough that it is worth it. Side note: I think the game would be much more interesting if we were incentivized to invest in religion more even if we are NOT the founder.
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    10,172
    I feel the incentive is there enough, the faith is very useful for both peace and war.
     
  13. Tannhauser

    Tannhauser Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    @OP, there is a small mod "removable ressources" that lets you build districts on ressources. I think I remember it works with artifacts too
     
  14. Ownsya

    Ownsya Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    215
    Gender:
    Male
    If it's any consolation, this annoyance exists irl as well. I've met people in Greece who live in rural areas, terrified of finding ruins whenever they purchase a plot of land to build a house. By law, if any ruins are found they are requires to report it, the government will buy the land from them to preserve the history and they have to find a new place. I believe its similar in some parts of Italy as well. So at least it's realistic. That said I'm surprised you go entire games without a TS!
     
    Elhoim likes this.
  15. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,585
    Gender:
    Male
    They ought to make it optional-> Natural History ---> Conservation ---> Cultural Heritage should just be a dead end maybe.
     
  16. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    191
    But is it worth the district slot? What do you NOT build in order to build a Holy Site? What GPP do you miss out on?
     
  17. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,383
    You can buy GPs with faith. And with the last patch the useless Great Prophet points (when they are all claimed) are turned into extra faith.
     
  18. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    4,501
    It does, at least if it's the same one that I have which is called "Harvest all resources". In fact, it lets you harvest Historical Sites for a vast amount of culture, which is not exactly balanced, so depending on your taste, you may impose house rules on using that.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    10,172
    It is possible to buy most things with faith so it is another form of money. What I get really confused about with other people is how important thy think gold is. Science and culture are key but gold is not as important as these.
    Holy sites are alternatives and GM are not that important.
     
  20. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    927
    I rarely push for a religion. But I do push for faith. Religion is just one of the mechanism tied to faith as a ressource, and definitely not the most reliable one.
    The only thing that can make me push for a religion is the bonus age points you get in order to trigger the best faith related bonus :the ability to buy settlers with faith.
     

Share This Page