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Natural Wonder Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by hhhhhh, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    Agreed. And unfortunately it's lasted by being judged as though it's in your first city, as compared to Causeway as though it's on the opposite end of the map to where you want to attack.

    One last breakdown of the Merchant points: Even if it's a T1 settle, its contributions never change from 2 merchant points per turn. So, for the Classical Merchants, it takes 30 turns to recruit each so converting that into yields it's 3 faith per turn and a single amenity to your capital, then 6gpt and 3 tiles, then 30 turns for a trade route which you need to finish a commercial hub to activate. Yeah, no.

    Duplicate upvote for Pio, as it deserves a top 5 spot.


    Ik-Kil [23]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [30]
    Pamukkale [7]
    Piopiotahi [21]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [1]
    Yosemite [7]
    Zhangye Danxia [1 - 3] ELIMINATED
     
  2. Cpt Chaos

    Cpt Chaos Chieftain

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    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ik-Kil [23+1=24] One of the few wonders you'd genuinely go out of your way to settle beyond the early game, but still beneficial early on as well.
    Pamukkale [7-3=4] Useless in the early game, and deserves to go before Tsingy. I don't buy the era score argument, as a swing of +3 era score here and there is very unlikely to matter (and could have been obtained elsewhere anyway).
    Eyjafjallajökull added back in as the previous post lost it.

    Eyjafjallajökull [19]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [30]
    Pamukkale [4]
    Piopiotahi [21]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [1]
    Yosemite [7]
     
  3. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    Jul 15, 2020
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    672
    Eyjafjallajökull [19+1=20]
    The best volcano natural wonder, makes tundra survivable, and its 2-tile size means there are 2 more tiles you can benefit from, as well as a potential location for a good Holy Site.

    Tsingy de Bemaraha [1-3=ELIMINATED]
    One-tile wonder isn't really competitive at this stage, and any 1-tile wonders deserve to go long ago. Workable 1 culture 1 science is really not much, maybe a bit better than Mato Tipila or Matterhorn, but cannot compare to the yields from other remaining wonders such as Piopiotahi or Mount Roraima. 1-tile size also means less good adjacency bonuses.

    An interesting sidenote: Tsingy de Bemaraha IRL actually covers a large amount of land - nearly 1000 square kilometers (Chocolate Hills only covers about 50 square kms). I don't know why it is just one hex in the game, it should be at least 3.

    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [30]
    Pamukkale [4]
    Piopiotahi [21]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [ELIMINATED]
    Yosemite [7]
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    Drivingrevilo, bbbt and cylenalag like this.
  4. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    I'll happily take a culture over a science. I'll happily take a culture over a food. But I won't take a culture over a science and a food. Yosemite: 7+1=8 Piopiotahi: 21-3=18

    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [30]
    Pamukkale [4]
    Piopiotahi [18]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [8]
     
    xaiviax likes this.
  5. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

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    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [30]
    Pamukkale [1] (4 - 3) Next to go. I rather have immediate yields than district adjacency. Surprised that this wonder lasted this long.

    Piopiotahi [18]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [9] (8 + 1) A B - grade Roraima giving some food and science and gold, and further more the tiles adjacent to Yosemite are improvable. I think Yosemite > Ik-kil in some scenarios, since to use Ik-kil you are basically forced to build infrastructure adjacent to Ik-kil, which can be less than satisfactory.
     
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  6. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

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    Pamukkale [ELIMINATED]. I was singing it’s praises for much of the thread, so I’m glad it reached this far. But probably about right time to go: the best effects it grants obviously don’t arrive until after you build your districts, and in particular your theatre square, which is comparatively late compared to the instant yields provided by the other wonders should you spawn near them.

    Païtiti [31] (30+1) The clear winner, and I see no reason to prolong the thread, so an upvote it is.

    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [31] (30+1)
    Pamukkale [ELIMINATED]

    Piopiotahi [18]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [9]
     
    xaiviax likes this.
  7. xaiviax

    xaiviax Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Good luck to all the wonders left competing for #2!

    And thanks to @hhhhhh for hosting the thread. Nice job with the summaries.

    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [15] (18-3) My first down vote of this fiord. As one aware of how to adapt and convert various yields in to one another, this simply does not have the yield intensity of what's left. And it's map positioning can be problematic many a time for city placement and and actual tile usage.
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [10] (9+1) Final nod to this wonder. Gathering Storm's additional food bonus benefited it greatly.
     
  8. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2020
    Messages:
    382
    Eyjafjallajökull [21] (20+1) Powerful even when they spawn in tundra or snow.
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [25]
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [12] (15-3) Hard to tell which one is better/worse, this or Yosemite. But this always appear near the sea, while Yosemite is always in the middle of land.
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [10]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  9. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
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    Eyjafjallajökull [21]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [22] Being on land can often mean no housing.
    Païtiti [30]
    Piopiotahi [13] Being on the sea means at least halfway housing.
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [10]

    To below: The coastal housing for Piopiotahi is a guarantee. Freshwater Roraima is possible but by no means guaranteed. You're just as capable of having a river run into the sea next to Pio as you are to have a river run next to Roraima. But in the cases where you *don't*, Pio has better housing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    CrabHelmet likes this.
  10. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

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    With no offence to previous voter, I’ve seen Roraima spawn next to fresh water on countless occasions. But Piopiotahi usually seems to spawn on isolated tracts of coast; so during the early early game, any city you build will be capped at pop 3 until you build a granary. Not a massive problem, of course, but enough to send it packing at this stage.

    Eyjafjallajökull [21]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [23] (22+1)
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [10] (13-3)
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [10]
     
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  11. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

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    Oct 25, 2017
    Messages:
    727
    Eyjafjallajökull [21]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [23]
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [11]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [7]

    Piopiotahi is as a matter of fact no less likely to be next to fresh water than Mt Roraima - neither has any particular spawn conditions which relate to fresh water. In fact, since all rivers eventually have to run to a coastal tile, Piopiotahi is actually fractionally more likely than Mt Roraima or Yosemite to appear by fresh water just by that effect. Moreover, as @lotrmith points out above, Piopiotahi guarantees at least coastal housing. Mt Roraima and Yosemite can leave you with nothing.

    My suspicion is all the usual suspects who don't realise the power of early game culture are going to turn up and get rid of Piopiotahi, a +12 (!!!) Culture Wonder. I can already see Roraima is going to beat Piopiotahi and I can't stop it, because people just look for raw yields and don't distinguish between what the different sorts of yields are. Personally I value Culture:Science at about 3:1, but it's clear others just value 'yields' generally without making any particular value of any yield type. However, I will absolutely see Yosemite out the door first. It shouldn't have even made top 10. +1 Culture +Gold is better than +1 Science +1 Food, especially when that +1 Culture +1 Gold affects 9 tiles rather than 8 and when the +1 Culture +1 Gold is more likely to have good housing options.
     
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  12. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Very tough to downvote now, weakest two left are the first two on the list, I prefer the production so downvoting Eyjafjallajökull [18] 21-3.

    There are 4 S tier wonders left and Piopiotahi [12] 11+1 is trailing way behind the others so I'll give it a little boost, agree with @CrabHelmet with the analysis above.

    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Ik-Kil [24]
    Mount Roraima [23]
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [12]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [7]
     
  13. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

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    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Ik-Kil [21](24-3) If you don't settle it early: you will build some disctricts quicker, but mostly with a worse adiacency like if you chose another placement; You won't build any wonder next to it, since that new city with the buff will still have lower production than your older established ones.
    Mount Roraima [23]
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [13] (12+1) culture good.
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [7]

    Am I allowed to complain that no one posted the ranking for the last elimination thread?
     
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  14. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

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    I was actually in the process of updating the first page but it got locked before I was done. If a moderator wants to unlock it now it has disappeared a bit and won't get bumped, I can still do that. Moderator Action: You have mail :) --NZ
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2020
  15. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    I value +10 Science +10 Food (spread across 8 tiles, with 10 gold) more than +12 Culture (spread across 9 tiles, with 12 gold). That doesn't mean I don't distinguish between yield types, it just means I disagree on the magnitude of the weightings. I'm happy to accept that culture is more valuable than science, at least in the early game, but I'm not convinced it's enough more valuable to compensate for a food yield (which, in some cases, will determine your ability to actually work the tiles). If sounds like you disagree pretty strongly, and that's fine, but describing other posters as "the usual suspects who don't realize the power of early game culture" probably isn't the best way to convince anyone.

    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Mount Roraima [23]
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [13-3=10]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [7+1=8]
     
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  16. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

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    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Ik-Kil [18](21-3) discussion seem to focus on whether piopiotahi give more housing than Roraima or culture is more important than science + food but Ik-kil is sitting too high IMO. +50% is nice but limited to adjacent to the wonder itself, so would usually grant poor adjacency. As for wonders, if you have placement requirements, then you have to plan around Ik-kil to use them. Lastly, if Ik-kil spawned next to luxury or strategic resources, you have fewer chances to use Ik-kil.
    Mount Roraima [24] (23+1)
    I think the housing argument is not one that I would buy, sure few housing limits your growth, but due to dense yields one population point is worth 2 to 3 population and you can always purchase a granary or build and aqueduct later on.

    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [10]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [8]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  17. xaiviax

    xaiviax Chieftain Supporter

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    Post 230 just fixed the mysterious subtraction of one from 228. :crazyeye:
     
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  18. Koljar

    Koljar Chieftain

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    Feb 18, 2019
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    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Mount Roraima [24]
    Païtiti [31]
    Piopiotahi [7] (10-3) I never found this in a spot worth settling early enough. Always seems to be too far out of the way for me.
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [9] (8+1) The +1 food helped this wonder. While Païtiti is amazing Yosemite should at leas last longer than Pio (imho).

    I'm really looking forward to what will be the top3. All of the remaining wonders (except for Pio :p) deserve to have lasted this long.
     
  19. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

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    Eyjafjallajökull [15] (18-3) The debate seems to be whether Piopiotahi or Yosemite should go first. Well, personally I think it should be Eyjafjallajökull. First, it’s the only wonder remaining that will erupt & damage your stuff; and although this does happen a lot less frequently than Vesuvius or a normal volcano, it’s still a negative against Eyja. Second, it can only spawn in tundra or snow; and although the food yields largely make up for this, there’s no avoiding the fact that tundra is not somewhere you want to be in the early game (barbarians, blizzards, low production, etc). And third, I’ve often seen it spawn out in the middle of nowhere, sometimes far from fresh water and often on island land-masses in the Artic/Antarctic circle; I presume this is something to do with how the map maker apportions tundra regions on non-Pangaea maps. Don’t get me wrong, the combination of culture and food still means Eyja is a great wonder; but it has definite downsides that mean it should be the next to go.

    Païtiti [32] (31+1) To avoid prolonged debate.

    Eyjafjallajökull [15] (18-3)

    Ik-Kil [18]
    Mount Roraima [24]
    Païtiti [32] (31+1)
    Piopiotahi [7]
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [9]
     
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  20. xaiviax

    xaiviax Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
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    I agree, and have pretty much said such in previous votes of mine.

    Eyjafjallajökull [15]
    Ik-Kil [18]
    Mount Roraima [24]
    Païtiti [32]
    Piopiotahi [4] (7-3)
    Torres del Paine [24]
    Yosemite [10] (9+1)
     
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