Natural Wonder Tier List

[kb27787]

IMO...
El Dorado should be #1.... (if you find it first of course)

FoY is only useful for domination with certain UUs... double healing march units is pretty crazy, otherwise, very overrated. Playing peacefully I'd rank it just under the faith wonders (think about it, with all that faith it's not that hard to buy pagodas... and pagodas give culture...)

I'd put lake Victoria right under GBR. It's basically free early hammers (assuming you have hills to work) as it allows your city to still grow while going heavy production.

Mt. Kilimanajaro should be higher (put it above Sinai) if it is for your first city as the border growth, food, and the ability to go through tradition much faster is pretty big early game.

Put Sri Pada down below Kilimanjaro; the 2 happiness is rather paltry. The worst thing is that it is always an island so you need to buy tiles with gold to get to work it.

Put KSM right below Uluru; 6 production is ridiculously huge early game, and chances are you can get an early wonder with it if you get it in your first city.

Other than that I agree with the list. Mt. Fuji I don't consider a faith wonder like the others on Pangaea (unless you are Polynesia maybe) since it always spawns on an island, and that is guaranteed to be inaccessible until optics)

Dunno I really value early hammers a lot. Happiness is not an issue if you have the hammers for workers/archers to guard them.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Mt. Kilimanajaro should be higher (put it above Sinai) if it is for your first city as the border growth, food, and the ability to go through tradition much faster is pretty big early game.

Mhhh, actually i would prefer it for going Liberty (very fast free settler). Tradition is a self funding tree adding too much external culture can really make things ugly later if you were going for a 4 city Tradition Rationalism game for instance (having to invest 2 SPs in commerce while waiting for renaissance is not very good).

I think it will be hard to get a single list on which everyone agrees. A "tier" based ranking would probably be easier (like tier 1 : "Quick, get a Settler i want this wonder", tier 2 : "Cool i found a wonder, let see if i can grab it", tier 3 : "Oh crap, it's Grand Mesa again!" )

 

[budweiser]

Tradition is a self funding tree adding too much external culture can really make things ugly later if you were going for a 4 city Tradition Rationalism game for instance (having to invest 2 SPs in commerce while waiting for renaissance is not very good).

Whoa! Hold on a second. Extra policies before Renaissance go to Patronage. Tradition without a culture boost beyond default is like a slow stagnant death. You want Tradition done at t80, Oracle and 3 policies in Patronage to really take off.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Well Commerce was an example but Patronage or Commerce won't do you much good for a science game will they? Note that i said they won't do much good because obviously they will help you, but not much compared to a delay in Rationalism or Ideology.

 

[budweiser]

Well Commerce was an example but Patronage or Commerce won't do you much good for a science game will they? Note that i said they won't do much good because obviously they will help you, but not much compared to a delay in Rationalism or Ideology.

I think so. Tommynt disclosed that he uses Patronage for extra beakers.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Well, this is really going of topic so i'll stop there but i never thought scolasticism (i guess it's what you are after in Patronage) was strong enough to compensate a 3 policies delay in Rationalism, but to be honest i only used Patronage in diplomatic games, and then without Rationalism.

 

[budweiser]

Well, this is really going of topic so i'll stop there but i never thought scolasticism (i guess it's what you are after in Patronage) was strong enough to compensate a 3 policies delay in Rationalism, but to be honest i only used Patronage in diplomatic games, and then without Rationalism.

Agreed. Here is non-Spain El Dorado. Go south and a little east.

 

[phillipwyllie]

King Solomon's Mines
Right I've rolled this twice now and it seems KSM appears near a river. As Spain this NW is the #1, ok GBR as Spain is close second but the ability to punt out a worker and all the early buildings before Madrid is a major bonus leaving that city to wonder/unit whore.

Anyway can anyone tell me what's wrong with this picture?

 

[Sessy]

I still think the faith based NWs are the best, and can be enhanced easily with a pantheon, although the AI rarely takes One with Nature, so you can probably get it through shrine faith if it doesn't give faith.

honestly old faithful isn't that bad, the happiness is much appreciated. I do have issues with Krakatoa which you can barely work, and Barrington Crater(literally worth less than a jungle trading post with universities)

Otherwise I still think FoY, Kilimanjaro, Reef are the best. The first 2 from a strategic view, and the GBR is just good yield (+16 faith Spain yumyumyum).

Then come the faith ones that give a quick religion. (They don't differ by too much imo because they can all be enhanced with the pantheon without building shrines) happiness is a plus, so I can understand OP putting Sri Pada up there.

The other ones are only good with Spain. Otherwise not really worth it, unless I want to spam some settlers with my second city on Solomon Mines. They're nice, but not exactly on par with the best ones.

 

[Cromagnus]

I would rank both Kili and Uluru higher, based purely on experience that when I do get these wonders in my borders, my games always go waaay better than games where I don't. Sri Pada is rare (for me anyway)

Eldorado is so much extra early culture that you actually have to adjust your long-term policy plan or avoid working it too much, or you end up getting late rationalism. Victoria causes similar hiccups when you realize you don't have enough spare happiness to plant an expo at the right time.

I *love* Great Barrier Reef, but it's rare that the surrounding tiles make for a good capital overall.

So, yeah, give me Uluru or Kili ever time. (Or a first-found Eldorado, but not finding it first makes it less valuable to me than the other two)

Kili is extremely useful even in peaceful games because your scouts get double moves in hills. That can result in as much extra early gold as Eldorado and when they upgrade to archers, they're super-effective at reaching barb camp quests before other civs.

 

[vivalamexico]

No nw is as good as FOY imo (lots of acronyms there).
It allows you to do crazy things with growth, especially early, and allows you to go landed elite before monarchy , which I find to be suboptimal quite often otherwose because of happiness needs. AND you don't even need to work it
it is basically a free Notre Dame

 

[phillipwyllie]

Barringer Crater
I've never took much notice of this NW but in my last game I did as I noticed a mountain range was in the vicinity. I was lucky and was able to settle next to a mountain/river tile. True there was tundra surrounding it but I settled in a location that made it in ring 3 so it wasn't so 'meh'.

 

[x2Madda]

Not going to argue with the ratings but I am going to add; Mt. Sinai, Mt. Kalish, Sri Pada, Uluru, Mt. Kilimonjaro, all count as mountains and are eligible for Observatories (and mountain required wonders).

Lake Victoria counts as a lake and is eligible for gardens as well as counting as a water source to build farm tiles around.

 

[consentient]

can anyone tell me what's wrong with this picture?

1. It's T338 and no-one had won yet
2. Nebby has only a couple of small cities with narrow borders
3. Something else I couldn't spot.

I think everyone should get 3 guesses.

and allows you to go landed elite before monarchy

I am fairly sure I've never gone monarchy before landed elite. Isn't the whole point of tradition to get growth going. After the free monuments, if you don't picked the growth you've invalidated any reason to go Tradition, IMO.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Anyway can anyone tell me what's wrong with this picture?

You are friend with both Shaka and Harald

 

[Shark Diver]

I am fairly sure I've never gone monarchy before landed elite. Isn't the whole point of tradition to get growth going. After the free monuments, if you don't picked the growth you've invalidated any reason to go Tradition, IMO.

My experience is the opposite. I more often find myself in need of the happiness/gpt and go that direction first. Your path is more ideal, but when the SP choice comes up……go with what you need, not what you want.

 

[phillipwyllie]

1. It's T338 and no-one had won yet....

I won ages before that pic, the reason I played passed the win was that I was trying to get someone to DOw me without me denouncing first.

You are friend with both Shaka and Harald

They are friends with me, not the other way around, There is a difference

Anyway you are all wrong and that I haven't settled next to a desert tile to get Petra. It's a mistake I've made twice now and even though it looks like KSM is on desert it is not.

FOY
As Spain I rolled this close by and settled it. This was the only game I have able able to rush-by 4 universities the turn I researched Education. Having the ability to sell all your luxuries early(and renew after 30turns) on is really powerful. By turn 80 more than half of the civs wanted to be friends, which in my experience is pretty rare.

 

[vivalamexico]

I am fairly sure I've never gone monarchy before landed elite. Isn't the whole point of tradition to get growth going. After the free monuments, if you don't picked the growth you've invalidated any reason to go Tradition, IMO.

Depends on how early you want to expand. Monarchy is the best happiness source in the game, and is fairly necessary for a 3-in-a-row settler rush. I often find it necessary