Nature's Revolt

[WarKirby]

So, this ritual makes all the animals in the world a lot stronger, by giving them all Heroic Strength and Heroic Defence I and II

Playing as FoL Svartalfar, I thought it would be a perfect thing for me to go for, since I had a few animals from getting hunting so early, and my priests could summon tigers.

I build it, lo and behold, my tigers become competent now. Far from awesome, but on par with weaponless champions. I'm looking forward to being able to use tigers as a decent army supplement.

I suicide my first wave of tigers against an enemy city (as you do with summons) , and then take it. But when I start summoning more tigers to replace them... they're... normal !

It seems the bonuses are only applied to living units, and those created after it's built gain no advantage. What a waste.

I'd like to suggest making NR a permanant effect, so that every animal both in existence, and created afterwards, would gain the bonuses. I don't think it would be overpowered, considering that hunters could still easily stand up to them, as could decent melee units like champions with iron weapons. But it would help animals to be a bit more useful overall

 

[Diamondeye]

This would vastly overpower the FoL priests' summons, in my honest opinion. In my first played through game (victory!), I played Lanun and completed this Project (I had 7 bears by the time I had 3 cities due to some icy wasteland, why not strengthen em a bit?). Shortly after I DoWed on the Ljosalfar (I felt I needed their cities/Shrine mana). I was mauled by tigers and treants (damn worldspell!), my army of swords became a pell-mell of meat. The only way I kept the offensive going was a mix of summons (Hemah, archmages) and mercenaries. I even lost the other OO hero to a tiger attack! Had the Ljosalfar been able to summon more tigers with strength 7(?), I might not have beaten them at all despite being technologically ahead and ahead in power. That would be imbalancing, imho.

 

[Fafnir13]

It works as a one time effect. Just make sure you're prepared for it.
Other then beefing up your own units, it also has the secondary effect of adding more animals to the world via changing barb units into them. If you've been lucky enough to get a gorilla at some point, it's a pretty good way to grab the grand menagerie. Even late game, it's a happiness boost not to be taken lightly.

 

[WarKirby]

Strength 7 tigers? I think there must have been something else at work there too

tigers have strength 4 as a base, I believe. not 5.


Also, I did find it odd that it affected hill giants. Does it affect treants too ?

 

[Sarisin]

Strength 7 tigers? I think there must have been something else at work there too

tigers have strength 4 as a base, I believe. not 5.


Also, I did find it odd that it affected hill giants. Does it affect treants too ?

Hill Giants are still considered animal units. I don't believe Treants are animal units and those are the only ones affected, although I don't think werewolves get the strength/defense boost either.

Griffons do, though, and they are especially nice to have with Heroic Strength and Defense!

 

[WarKirby]

Hmm, hill giants don't really belong as animal units, I'd say. There's an event where one demands you give him your pigs, which at least proves they're intelligent enough to communicate.

I guess it's just so they don't attack barbarian players.

Also, although treants certainly aren't animals, they're avatars of nature. I'd really say they ought to be affected by Nature's Revolt, too.

 

[Neomega]

hill giants animals? Doesn't seem right.

 

[Atnanor]

Its so they don't go and rape starting cities right off, so get over it.

 

[Neomega]

Its so they don't go and rape starting cities right off, so get over it.

still doesnt seem right.

 

[Sarisin]

Yeah, I don't think Larry, Moe, and Curley would have appreciated being called animals.

Hunters, Lizardmen, etc. clearly get the bonus against animals against the Hill Giants. And, usually when Ranger units start showing up the Stooges are pretty much dead in the water even with a ton of promotions. They remain good bombard units, however.

 

[Jules.lt]

Is it necessary for them to be considered animals so they can get the animal AI (and not enter borders)?

I know that the gargoyles from the Pristin Pass have the animal AI, so if those aren't really considered animals (scout bonus & Nature's revolt) the same treatment should be applied to hill giants.

 

[Neomega]

So, can you capture them with the subdue animal promotion? Wish I had known that in earlier games. Now pristin pass is awesome place to get cool units.

 

[Diamondeye]

Hill Giants are uncapturable. I think Gargoyles are aswell... So stay away from the Pristin Pass.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Subdue Animal promotion lets you capture any unit with UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL, the Subdue Beast promotion lets you capture any unit with UNITCOMBAT_BEAST, and the Command promotions have a chance to let you capture living units. Hill Giants are UNITCOMBAT_BEAST and they are living units, so they can be captured by either Subdue Beast or a Command promotion but not by Subdue Animal. Gargoyles are not alive and they have no unitcombat, so no promotion would let you capture them.

 

[Neomega]

The Subdue Animal promotion lets you capture any unit with UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL, the Subdue Beast promotion lets you capture any unit with UNITCOMBAT_BEAST, and the Command promotions have a chance to let you capture living units. Hill Giants are UNITCOMBAT_BEAST and they are living units, so they can be captured by either Subdue Beast or a Command promotion but not by Subdue Animal. Gargoyles are not alive and they have no unitcombat, so no promotion would let you capture them.

Oh, OK. Its all good then. Im over it.

 

[Sarisin]

The Subdue Animal promotion lets you capture any unit with UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL, the Subdue Beast promotion lets you capture any unit with UNITCOMBAT_BEAST, and the Command promotions have a chance to let you capture living units. Hill Giants are UNITCOMBAT_BEAST and they are living units, so they can be captured by either Subdue Beast or a Command promotion but not by Subdue Animal. Gargoyles are not alive and they have no unitcombat, so no promotion would let you capture them.

If Hill Giants are considered Beast units, MC, why do Lizardmen, Hunters, etc. get a bonus against them? I've had Hill Giants killed by simple barb Lizardmen. If you look at the relative strengths, there is no way that should keep happening. The same with Rangers who are devastating against Hill Giants.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I believe that bonus is a holdover from vanilla, and is based on the <bAnimal>1 tag instead of the unitcombat.