Naval Dreamer?

[thadian]

By the looks of things, archipelago games with large navies featuring all navy civ's will go from nightmare to dream come true.

Not only can embarked units protect themselves but more civ's are tuned for naval warfare. I hope to see "better" naval action, and not just more destroyers. Given that so many civ's now between them all have either naval UU's or naval traits, hopefully navy war has also been reworked and rebalanced.

if so, +1.

 

[KillingMeSoftly]

There's also the Great Admiral, who apparently can heal nearby naval units.

 

[thadian]

i did NOT notice that, so how does this impact embarked great generals i wonder...

finally, the naval front can be about more than using galleys to sink your enemy land forces and try to win before they spam a billion destroyers a turn. For all of the improvements and features promised, i am putting my chips on the naval element.

 

[Olleus]

Do we know what the new naval units will be yet?

My Theory is:
Ancient:
Galley - ranged (Currently called trireme)

Classical:
Trireme - melee

Medieval
Caravel - explorer/scout
Carrack - ranged

Renaissance
Frigate - Melee
Privateer - Weaker Melee, hides nationality

Enlightenment
Ship-of-the-Line - Ranged (rename the British UU to Man-o-War)
Iron Clad - Melee, not ocean going

Industrial
Destroyer - Melee, Anti-Submarine, fast scout
Battleship - Ranged
Submarine - Ranged (range 1), hidden, carrier missiles
Cruiser - Melee (much stronger than destroyer but slower)


Modern
Carrier - Melee, carries planes
Missile Cruiser - Long Ranged, carries missiles

Upgrade tree would go
Galley->Carrack->Ship-of-the-Line->Battleship->Missile Cruiser
Trireme->Frigate->Cruiser->Missile Cruiser
Ironclad->Cruiser->
Caravel->Destroyer
Privateer->Submarine (kind of unrelated, but have similar functions)


I know it's not 100% historically accurate, but seems like this is the fewest changes they can make form the current game in order to have it working

 

[CYZ]

I'm guessing an Great Admiral is just an embarked Great General. Which is fine by the way because there's no good improvement for an admiral.

Hopefully naval AI will be more able. Invasions should be easier for them now, but it's a must they actually use fleets. Right now the AI just sends individual ships, they should send fleets, more or less in formation and with a Great Admiral.

 

[theadder]

I'm guessing an Great Admiral is just an embarked Great General. Which is fine by the way because there's no good improvement for an admiral.

Hopefully naval AI will be more able. Invasions should be easier for them now, but it's a must they actually use fleets. Right now the AI just sends individual ships, they should send fleets, more or less in formation and with a Great Admiral.

I thought that it was confirmed that the Great Admiral is a separate unit.

 

[eazyseeker]

AFAIK, the Great Admiral *IS* a separate non-embarked naval unit, that other than boosting the other ship's strength, also has the special, one-time (it consumes it) ability to heal all ships in range.

 

[CYZ]

Woops, my bad. I wonder if they can disembark then :O

 

[Camikaze]

IIRC, it was said that the Great Admiral acts as a civilian naval unit (i.e. like a work boat)?

 

[CYZ]

IIRC, it was said that the Great Admiral acts as a civilian naval unit (i.e. like a work boat)?

Ah, ok, so no improvement then I guess?

 

[Olleus]

We don't know.

My guess is that it will have an improvement, but it will be a mostly 'civilian' one, boosting food/gold on that coastal tile (+4F, +2G?). Not sure what to call it, fishing wharf maybe? I know its nothing to do with military, but admirals exist in merchant navies as well as combat ones.

 

[eazyseeker]

IIRC, it was said that the Great Admiral acts as a civilian naval unit (i.e. like a work boat)?

Well, that makes sense. It should be able to stack with military units, as the GG does.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Lord Olleus, I'll give some thoughts. I haven't done a unit count in awhile to figure out how many naval units we can play with. However:

I agree Triremes will be melee more likely than not. Although they might decide, for balance reasons, to make them ranged.

Caravel is not really a Medieval ship. I suspect the Middle Ages won't be changed and we'll keep the same ships we have now. Caravel, as an explorer, will likely not fall into the normal pattern. I don't think they'll add a Carrack.

Frigate stays the same, but they'll add Privateer as a melee unit. They are unlikely to add generic Ship of the Line and the English are keeping their ship.

I agree the Ironclad will likely be melee.

After that, I don't think they'll add anything. The only doubt I have is whether they'll add a Dreadnought and WWI Destroyer and whether there will be a modern melee unit, assuming a Missile Destroyer is (rightfully) ranged.

 

[Haig]

Using great admiral to heal ships removes great admiral, can be thought of like Admiral Nelson losing his life on the event of learning out his greatest victory..

 

[Zaimejs]

This is cool, and I hope that it's true. I really hope that Submarines can go undetected into enemy waters... I finally built a submarine the other day, only to find that entering enemy borders would trigger a war. This is stupid.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Lord Olleus, I'll give some thoughts. I haven't done a unit count in awhile to figure out how many naval units we can play with. However:

I agree Triremes will be melee more likely than not. Although they might decide, for balance reasons, to make them ranged.

Caravel is not really a Medieval ship. I suspect the Middle Ages won't be changed and we'll keep the same ships we have now. Caravel, as an explorer, will likely not fall into the normal pattern. I don't think they'll add a Carrack.

Frigate stays the same, but they'll add Privateer as a melee unit. They are unlikely to add generic Ship of the Line and the English are keeping their ship.

I agree the Ironclad will likely be melee.

After that, I don't think they'll add anything. The only doubt I have is whether they'll add a Dreadnought and WWI Destroyer and whether there will be a modern melee unit, assuming a Missile Destroyer is (rightfully) ranged.

The Destroyer has been changed to melee to be the Modern naval melee unit.

I think that there needs to be a new melee naval unit positioned between the Trireme and the Privateer.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I don't think there will be. There doesn't seem to be any indication that the longstanding gap between classical and age of discovery naval units will be filled.

 

[AriochIV]

The Trireme is most likely going to be converted into a melee unit. In addition to being realistic (the primary weapon of the Trireme was its ram), we do know that the Carthaginian Quinquereme is a melee unit. I do hope the attack animation involves ramming... that would be fun.

They could add a new ancient/classical ranged naval unit, but they probably shouldn't... naval vessels were not great ranged platforms in that era.

For the Renaissance, the Privateer may well be the only new addition as the melee unit for that era. I haven't seen anything about hiding of national identity.

AFAIK, the Great Admiral *IS* a separate non-embarked naval unit, that other than boosting the other ship's strength, also has the special, one-time (it consumes it) ability to heal all ships in range.

The quotes I have seen make it sound like the healing is a passive ability, and the screenshot we have of the Great Admiral does not show any new ability buttons.

 

[Zaimejs]

Maybe I'm not remember right, but is there a Viking naval UU? There certainly should be. During the Middle Ages, this was the Viking's big advantage... the longboat. No other Civ could even come close. They crossed the ocean in those puppies long before anyone had frigates or galleons. They should replace the caravel for the Vikings turning it into a powerful melee unit or something.

Meh.

 

[eazyseeker]

Maybe I'm not remember right, but is there a Viking naval UU? There certainly should be. During the Middle Ages, this was the Viking's big advantage... the longboat. No other Civ could even come close. They crossed the ocean in those puppies long before anyone had frigates or galleons. They should replace the caravel for the Vikings turning it into a powerful melee unit or something.

Meh.

Well, it kinda is represented already by their UA - their embarked units turn into longboats anyway.