Naval Warfare and you empire

[Nimitz96]

Having a well balanced military is important. One of the most important of them is the Navy. Having a strong navy can mean the difference between a disastrous Seaborne Invasion and a swift powerful counter-attack or another civilization under your control. I have found that "Task forces of a carrier (2 fighters 2 stealth bombers), and 2-3 AEGIS cruisers. The cruisers because the have Anti submarine (ASW) capability and powerful anti surface (ASuW) capability. Add that to the carriers air force, and you have a very nice task force that can operate by itself. Now having a coastal defense force like thing consisting of several cruisers or destroyers for a basic ASW/ASuW force to protect your coasts from invasions (If they grow a pair and attempt such a feat.).
The greatest threat against you is possibly the enemy nuclear submarine force. you can combat this by figuring out where their bases are through spies. (for that go to the war academy). Knock them out before they come in range of your territory.
The task of your navy is to escort the main invasion force if they are amphibious and/or support the front through air/sea bombardment and the knocking down of enemy stacks and cities before the "big push". More in our next installment!

 

[vmxa]

Never saw much need for navy. 4 frigates to cover galleons or in a conquest only game, 3 destroyers to cover transports. Maybe a few frigates or destroyers in spots. No carriers or cruisers.

 

[Spoonwood]

I love how a newbie will occassionally appear and tell us something like this which makes no sense whatsoever to veteran players. Oh wait... I probably did that myself in a few threads. So, no hate here brother.

Still, you talk about AEGIS cruisers, fighters, stealth bombers, and so on. Most of the time the game not even go to tanks. Don't get me wrong, in that there do exist some types of games like a bloody space game on an island map (which sounds mascohistic... in a space games you probably want a fast tech pace, so play pangea) where these units might come into play. However, most veteran players in a conquest, domination, or 100k game don't need much past Military Tradition (buying armies), or Steam Power (armies traveling on rails), or Replacable Parts (armies+artillery=nightmares for the AI) even at high levels. At lower levels, they don't even need that (XOTM after XOTM which more-or-less ends at Chivalry). And for a diplomatic game those units don't really help either.

Of course plenty of players do get to them and use them, but they might not care to change their playstyle or learn how to play in such in a way that they get in a stronger position earlier. That's their choice and make no mistake, they can play whatever way comes as more fun for them. But, that doesn't make those naval units and carriers important. Plenty of experienced players can tell you that, and probably find this post baffling.

 

[timerover51]

Hmm, not sure if I am a newbie or not, but I do like to play with navies on continent and archipelago maps, the larger the better. And since I normally go for a Space Race victory, I do get to use all of the new ones, although I do like my modified battleships a lot. There are a lot of different ways to play the game, and some people do like navies. I personally do not like Pangeae maps, do not worry that much about trading for techs with the AI, and like have a lot of space to expand before running into the opposition.

 

[Aegis]

Still, you talk about AEGIS cruisers, fighters, stealth bombers, and so on. Most of the time the game not even go to tanks. Don't get me wrong, in that there do exist some types of games like a bloody space game on an island map (which sounds mascohistic... in a space games you probably want a fast tech pace, so play pangea) where these units might come into play. However, most veteran players in a conquest, domination, or 100k game don't need much past Military Tradition (buying armies), or Steam Power (armies traveling on rails), or Replacable Parts (armies+artillery=nightmares for the AI) even at high levels. At lower levels, they don't even need that (XOTM after XOTM which more-or-less ends at Chivalry). And for a diplomatic game those units don't really help either.

If you play with Accelerated Production on (like I do), you will often find yourself in the Modern Era with plenty of land left to conquer because the tech pace is quicker. For instance, in my current game I am building up an amphibious invasion force of Artillery & Infantry, but by the time I have a sizable force built up, tanks will have been discovered.

I love naval battles but the AI really sucks at launching anything more dangerous than 2-4 units at a time, so controlling the seas isn't all that important, especially with the advent of Aviation.

Is there a modpack out there where the AI is better at amphibious assaults?

 

[timerover51]

If you play with Accelerated Production on (like I do), you will often find yourself in the Modern Era with plenty of land left to conquer because the tech pace is quicker. For instance, in my current game I am building up an amphibious invasion force of Artillery & Infantry, but by the time I have a sizable force built up, tanks will have been discovered.

I love naval battles but the AI really sucks at launching anything more dangerous than 2-4 units at a time, so controlling the seas isn't all that important, especially with the advent of Aviation.

Is there a modpack out there where the AI is better at amphibious assaults?

I have seen the AI do a bit more than what you have seen, but amphibious assault is a weak point of the AI, and unfortunately, that is hard-coded in the game. The best games that I have played for AI use of amphibious warfare are Rise of Nations and Age of Empires 2, especially Rise of Nations. Civ3 is definitely lacking there, which is another reason why I like continent and archipelago maps, although if you structure the starting locations correctly, the Ptolemy map has about the same effect, even though it is basically one enormous continent.

 

[Spoonwood]

If you play with Accelerated Production on (like I do), you will often find yourself in the Modern Era with plenty of land left to conquer because the tech pace is quicker. For instance, in my current game I am building up an amphibious invasion force of Artillery & Infantry, but by the time I have a sizable force built up, tanks will have been discovered.

Perhaps, but no matter the production rate techs take at least 4 turns by one tribe to research (the trading rate can make things go faster, but one tribe has to spend 4 turns of reserach on a tech for it to get learned). Also, comments around here usually don't assume accelerated production at play.

 

[vmxa]

Yes anyone asking feedback and using a mod or AP or non std game settings should advise everyone of that fact. I tend to not respond to modified games as I have no idea of the impact of their changes. AP was meant for MP games, so most solo players will not use it. It just distorts the game.

 

[Spoonwood]

My question about AP comes as this...

Do the higher levels become easier say because you have a 50% growth/production rate, while at Emperor the AIs have a 40% production rate
Demi-God a 35% (which I bet isn't possible, I bet it's 30% or 40%) production rate
Deity a 30% production rate
Sid a 20%.

So, I would assume that the AIs more-or-less hit a growth/production "wall" since there doesn't exist any overrun. And thus Sid AP actually ends up easier than Sid regular?

 

[vmxa]

I do not know. I have only played two games, solo, that used AP. Both were games posted here or at Poly. I am not sure of the levels, low I would say. It was crazy. I was going nuts as settlers pop out so fast and worker as well.

Just trying to figure out where all my settlers were heading made me go blind. It felt like work and I was sorry I agree to play. Every MP or PBEM game I ever played use the normal mode, even the Civ IV demo game.

I guess, if you wanted to start an MP game on a Sun morning and finish it that day, AP makes sense. If you are playing solo, what is the need to speed up the game? TBS is meant to be unhurried.

 

[Aegis]

Perhaps, but no matter the production rate techs take at least 4 turns by one tribe to research (the trading rate can make things go faster, but one tribe has to spend 4 turns of reserach on a tech for it to get learned). Also, comments around here usually don't assume accelerated production at play.

I know, I was merely making a suggestion for those who desired more late-era warfare without having to unnecessarily prolong the game.

 

[Nimitz96]

Ive been playing for a long time before I found and Joined this website, so Im not a newbie. I try to prolong games, so that I get more fun messing around with the modern units, and doing HUGE amphibious assaults, and stuff, so that is why I am talking about the modern day stuff.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

I'm with you brother. I'm in no rush to finish a game. Beating the AI or maxing out scores, carries no satisfaction for me at all. I get tired of the one upsmanship of the Tech Tree and don't mind at all biding my time until everyone has the same MechInf and Modern Armor Units.

Unfortunatly I havn't seen any use for a navy other than convoy route protection. But heh, if that's what brings enjoyment of the game to you, more power to you!

 

[GamezRule]

Navy's are useful for playing earth maps or other huge maps. In a regular game, they don't have much use other then exploration and transportation.

 

[timerover51]

Ive been playing for a long time before I found and Joined this website, so Im not a newbie. I try to prolong games, so that I get more fun messing around with the modern units, and doing HUGE amphibious assaults, and stuff, so that is why I am talking about the modern day stuff.

You should play the Pacific War scenario that comes with the Civilization 3 Complete game if you like huge amphibious assaults. And I also like to prolong the game to play around with the modern units. I tend to do that with all of the computer games that I play.

 

[Nimitz96]

Ive played that Scenario and I think that is one of the better Civ3 scenarios... but yea..

 

[Smellincoffee]

Although I like navies, I only invest in modern navies if they prove necessary. In a recent game, for instant, war broke out on another continent that threatened to create a superpower on par with myself -- not what I wanted. I had to mount an invasion, constantly resupplied by more infantry and artillery units. When one of my allies --- Carthage -- turned against me and started sinking my trooships, I had to build modern destroyers and BBs to protect them. Sort of like Rome in the Punic Wars.

 

[Nergal]

I think the issue with AP is you effectively out produce your growth so its unsustainable. I normally sacrifice some production in favour of growth for troop support and gpt/beaker output.
As for navies, they are all but useless, naval combat is more jinxed than land so you always lose ships unless its a huge stack of frigates or a tech advantage. Personally I prefer bombers, waste the enemy shipping from shore and travel the seas in safety.

 

[Raliuven]

I agree with Nergal - the RNG hates me with sea battles. I lose Ironclads to Frigates regularly. Although I hate wasting money on navies unless it supports my goal (or for fun), on a water board it seems like you need to. I can't finsh a game by 10AD, so I end up duking it out along the shoreline, expecially in a Monarch game. If I ignore sea production, then someone comes along with a bunch of frigates and bombards the coast - if you are an island Civ with now way to respond, this can be devestating. You can try to use arty to knock them down, but without some support ships, you can't get rid of them. Then I lose two Ironclads to a redlined frigate and I curse the RNG and swear I will quit playing anything other than a pan game.

I don't mind being called a newbie - if I am missing something, please tell me how you get around this - assuming you can't win the game by 10AD. Otherwise I am stuck building a navy like Nimitz. I'm trying to figure that out too, but that's another topic . . .

As a side note, I like navy battles as much as the next guy if that is what I have set out to. Nothing makes me happier than blowing a transport out of the water with a well placed battleship convoy.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

I never use ships for shore protection. Three things I do: Build cities off the shore-keep roads out of range. Protect roads/railroads with Units. Have enough Workers handy to stay ahead of the bombardment. Naval production for anything other than convoy duty is wasted, unless you just want to do it for fun.