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Navy Frustration

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Harvin87, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. Harvin87

    Harvin87 The Youth

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    I've been playing in Monarch with England, World map... the game its pretty advanced now, I have a really strong navy considering that I have to watch for my trade routes with America, Caribbean and so ... but the thing is that my oponents ships allways seems to be stronger than mine ships... Ive lost a battle ship against a crippled destroyer with 85% chance.. even though I have dry docks... and I can upgrade a lit of bit my ships... but the AI ships are stronger...

    Any thoughs on how to take on that one...? ... is it possible to make it equal? ... Normally I use Carriers to even the odds ... but anyway i have bad time engaging enemy ships...

    thx.
    :goodjob:
     
  2. De Begerac

    De Begerac Chieftain

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    From my understanding of tictacs suggested elsewhere attach a general to a decent ship to get medic III, should improve long term survival odds. Increase your fleets, personally it would be rare for me to have a Battleship floating around without at least a couple of destroyers as well. Use air units to recon the sea, upon finding enemy units bombard from air and/or throw in some cruise missiles too to soften them up before engaging ship to ship. if you're spread thin move your missile carrying subs and carriers to give maxim cover for your ships, i.e if you had ships at 4 corners of a grid you'd want your carrier in the middle to be able to offer some cover to all of them.

    Cyrano
     
  3. katipunero

    katipunero Prince

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    I noticed this too. I usually have a fleet out early at the "age of sail" so called. I had stacks of frigates get decimated by roving privateers and whatnot. On topic: more airships, cruise missiles, bombers, fighter planes, and tac nukes (armed in subs) would tilt the odds heavily to your favor.
     
  4. Birdman6

    Birdman6 Warlord

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    Naval victories are often a function of luck and who strikes first, but it could be the destroyer that sunk your battleship was well-promoted. Did you check its promotions? Regardless, it sounds like you're having some bad luck but there are a few things you can do to increase your odds.

    - Make sure you have the circumnavigation bonus. This is the only real way to guarantee superiority over all over navies. That 1 extra move allows your ships to flee from danger or hunt down your enemies at will.
    - Recon effectively; several methods for this. 1) Use airships or carrier to scout by air, 2) use a screen of destroyers to watch out for your larger fleet, 3) send your fleet abroad to harrass your enemy's coastline and monitor his movements. I actually prefer #3 because it stifles the enemy so badly that he can barely get out of port. It's riskier of course but as long as you have a large fleet there you'll be ok.
    - Have a strong navy production city that can crank out ships quickly. Losing a battleship isn't that big a deal when you can build a new one in 2 turns. My current navy city has dry dock, forge, factory, ironworks and west point...along with the pentagon in another city my ships get 3 promotions upon construction.
    - Use large, diverse fleets. Battleships are stronger when supported by other ship types like destroyers and subs. You might not be able to save your battleship but you can at least get revenge and make sure the enemy doesn't live to tell the tale!
    - Conquer your enemy's ports!
     
  5. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    If you are attacking enemy ships, when possible engage them in the ocean rather than on the coast, as there is a 10% defense bonus for ships on coast regardless of whose territory they're in.
     
  6. the_elf

    the_elf Warlord

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    This is an important tactical detail for all naval activities. 1) Make sure that your naval movements put you on a coast for protection if you are making forward, aggressive actions. That extra 10% is worth it, even if it means delaying one turn to do so. 2) Lure your enemies away from the coastline, if possible. 3) After attacking, try to leave enough movement points to get you out of their range or enough to get you to the protection of a coastline. Or, preferably under the watchful eye of your mint, promoted Ship of the Line or Battleship.

    Do not underestimate the softening ability of submarines with flanking promotions! :) I'm trying to get better about incorporating subs in my fleet operations. You just have to keep them away from enemy coastlines with Airships and from enemy Destroyers. Also, subs can travel under ice. A few of these make for great arctic naval intelligence and pre-strike task forces.
     
  7. Birdman6

    Birdman6 Warlord

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    Can a sub be attacked while it's under the ice?
     
  8. the_elf

    the_elf Warlord

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    By another sub, yes. By other units that can't travel through/under ice...no. Great hit and run hiding spot. I think you might be able to drill them with aircraft, but other persuing Destroyers/Battleships/Frigates can't get to them.
     
  9. sfnhltb

    sfnhltb Chieftain

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    Ive lost a battle ship against a crippled destroyer with 85% chance.. even though I have dry docks... and I can upgrade a lit of bit my ships... but the AI ships are stronger...

    Your ship was stronger, hence the 85% chance, and the dry docks/upgrades you have are already factored into the 85%. 85% isn't a guarantee of a win though, you still lose 1 in 6 times basically. If your opponent had to roll a normal 6 sided dice and get a 6 to win, you would expect it to win sometimes right?

    Any thoughs on how to take on that one...? ... is it possible to make it equal?

    So you want to make your odds worse and only equal to the opponent? That seems a strange thing to want to do. Send in a weaker unit like a destroyer I guess.
     
  10. Harvin87

    Harvin87 The Youth

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    Yea... I was really pissed off when upon the loss of my battleship hehe... as it had good promotions and had a good name...hehe.

    Does anyone put names to their warships? .. or Im the only freak that do that? hehe ... for example this Battleship that I lost was named... HMS Warspite ... just like Admiral Cunningham flagship of the WWII Mediterranean Fleet.

    Thanks for the advice.. My battleships are never alone neither... I usually set up a taskforce everytime I put my ships to sea. But I wish carriers could take at least one more fighter tough...
    :goodjob:
     
  11. Birdman6

    Birdman6 Warlord

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    I name my ships. My current carrier is the Enterprise and my transports are named after the other space shuttles.
     
  12. huh?

    huh? Warlord

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    I will usually name my ships based on the fleet that they are associated with. For example, I usually have 2 invasion fleets and 1 anti-invasion fleet. My names are nothing like Warspite, but more along the lines of West BS1, West Des1, West Tran1 or AI Des1. West BS1 is my west fleet battleship #1, and AI is my anti-invasion fleet. One fleet normally heads west from the mainland and the other leave east.

    <edit> removed my first strike comment based on PieceofMind's confirmation
     
  13. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    No no, first strikes are taken into account in exactly the right way in odds calculations.
     
  14. Pablod

    Pablod Warlord

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    how can you change ships names in civ 4 with out worldbuilder
     
  15. GravityWave

    GravityWave Deposed Emperor

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    On BTS anyway, simply select a unit and then left click on it's name in the unit info box. Very usefully for marking units that are for attack/defence - especially useful with large SoDs as you can quickly tell the purpose of a unit that died in combat and can arrange a replacement (i.e. I call units with city raider promotions x Troopers, units with city garrison x Guards etc.).
     
  16. Harvin87

    Harvin87 The Youth

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    Ok, somebody explain this to me... like if were a 4 year old hehe.. I've lost HMS Agamemmon ... (Destroyer) in an unexplainable way... With air reconnaissance I spotted two enemy destroyers on the open ocean..... I sent my airplanes... crippled them real bad... with one submarine I had on the Area I sank one of them... and I inmediatly dispatched HMS Agamemmon in pursue of the fleeing destroyer... when they meet next turn .... the enemy destroyer hat two promotions on "strenght" , you all know 2 stars... but my ship was actually my most "powerful" destroyer... It had a great general, 3 stars! ... 3 ... , one promotion on First strike Chance and also a promotion on healing... I mean ... I remember, that I saw the odds of the battle ... it was 95% on my favor... and I lost it... the enemy ship was crippled .. and still managed to sink my vessel... That really got me pissed... Can somebody tell me how can this happen? ... Im playing in Monarch ...

    thx! :)
     
  17. De Begerac

    De Begerac Chieftain

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    Guess you were in that 5%......

    Cyrano
     
  18. GravityWave

    GravityWave Deposed Emperor

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    That about sums it up. On my last game I lost a couple of units at 99.9% - it was annoying, but I'd killed nearly 3000 enemy units so it was highly probable. I would never send in a unit I wanted to keep (like a GG) below 99.9% odds.
     
  19. hellarch

    hellarch Chieftain

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    The best way of destroying a fleet is to make a sudden strike while they are in harbor, like what Yamamoto did.
     
  20. Phoenician

    Phoenician Tiberium Warrior

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    I find that giving my ships first strike promotions instead of combat promotions usually gives me an advantage. I also like to keep 2-3 battle groups per area I am protecting, so if a huge navy pops up and weakens one stack with collateral damage, I have the other to finish them off.

    Look at it this way, giving a destroyer first strike promotions is almost like making it a stealth destroyer. You ever notice how those stealth destroyers just chew up your missle cruisers/battleships despite them being weaker...it's the 2 first strikes.
     

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