Nazism finds home in America

[IceBlaZe]

The american constitution allows the most spicy Nazi movements to act freely under US law, thus resulting in the biggest number of racist murders and massacres.
The first amendment lets the influence hit.
Should the US law over-ride the first amendmant and take out of law public american Nazi organizations and resorts that specifically act to influence the idea of racist-background murders and ethnic cleansing?

 

[G-Man]

I'm against Nazis ofcource but I think the US goverment is working against them.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Not really sure what precisely you are saying, but if I read the meaning correctly, my answer is yes. Go out there, shoot (and maybe arrest as a afterthought) the KKK, the Nazi's until there are none left. To hell with free speech, etc, IMO. There are some things beyond the pale.
Especially the Illinois Nazi's.

 

[atawa]

Difficult question, on the one hand, yeah just shoot those ****s, but first of all, you're stepping down to their level, and second: where do you draw the line? As I recall there is a extreme rightwing party in your gouverment in Israel, shoot them too then?

Imho, the best thing to do about those pricks is just to point and lough at them, making them a joke will cost them a lot of new members. (thats what we did in Holland with our far-right and they are now decimated )

 

[DinoDoc]

Loaded question. You assume without evidence that giving a person freedom is the proximate cause for them engaging in violence. You also assume that the government would be responsible if we gave it the ability to over ride the freedom of its citizens when it suited its needs.

 

[amadeus]

I've got some concerns...

More Anglo-decendents are being killed by American-Africans every day, but it is not "racism" -- it is "social inequality" or "disenfranchisement"

When an Anglo man (or woman) acts violent against an African-decendent, it IS "racism"

For every Ku Klax Klan member, there's a Black Panther. For every Black Panther, there's a Palestinian Liberation Org. member, and so on...

The United States is doing a pretty good job, and many counties are singling out these groups for things.

For example, in one state, the Ku Klux Klan took part in an "Adopt a Highway" program (for those of you who don't know, it's where groups offer to clean up litter on highways), and people didn't like it.

The highway was renamed to the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Highway.

Small measures to counter the expansion of these groups is working best, as people evolve over time, and realize how ridiculous a bunch of guys hanging out wearing white sheets really is.

 

[PinkyGen]

Sadly, if they aren't violating any laws, than there is nothing you can do about them. Those are there rights, and we can't jail people just because what they say. (P.S. I just saw People vs. Larry Flynt . It would have made me ashamed to live in Cincinnati, if I wasn't already embarassed over it already.

But if you can prove they are using their agencies to cause terror (aka get a link that would stand in court) than by all means, go ahead.

P.S. rmsharpe, I don't think anybody thinks violence by anyone, black or white, is ok.

 

[Glaurung]

um, im not aware of any race related massacres nowadays. maybe in the 1800s...if you want a race related massacre, look at israel and palestine...

 

[Drekken]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
I've got some concerns...

More Anglo-decendents are being killed by American-Africans every day, but it is not "racism" -- it is "social inequality" or "disenfranchisement"

When an Anglo man (or woman) acts violent against an African-decendent, it IS "racism"

That is called political correctness and neoliberal social engineering. Which poses a greater threat to our way of life than some discredited racist morons.

 

[amadeus]

I know, and frankly, it makes me sick.

 

[Drekken]

Same here. If enough people see it for what it is though it can probally be stopped, but the Liberals do have ignorance on their side...

 

[BlueMonday]

The same freedom that lets me say whatever I want, is the same freedom that allows racists to say whatever they want. Leave it as it is, otherwise we have fascism.

I am, however, offended at the tone of the poll. "No, leave it as it is, so what if it causes massacres." What a grevious error those words are. The first amendment protects ideas and the people who speak those ideas, it does not protect anyone who threatens or commits acts of violence.

Tell me, what massacres do you speak of? You seem to say that the first amendment causes massacres of jews, blacks, and latinos. Yet, I have in my memory no recall of any massacres commited by racist whites against jews, blacks, or latinos that went unpunished.

 

[CurtSibling]

Well the premise of the thread is a tad flawed.

If you know anything about the evils of Nationalist Socialist philosophy, then you would know this:

1 The madman stated the superiority of pure Aryan background; hence being one of the Germanic peoples is the only way to being a "true" nazi...an insane concept.

2 The USA's great appeal (like the UK) is it's multi-racial and multi-culture society. Hitler hated both countries for this...Real nazis would never rise in the USA...only wannabes.

3 Racism and ignorance is the poison that fuels the barren Nazi movement...North America is known to be ruthless at times, but it has a LONG way to go before getting anywhere near Hitler’s war machine, the Third Reich...USA is a free country, get used to it.

4 Nazis make me angry. The callous disregard for life and anything other than their holy racist creed is disgusting...not to mention shaming and nearly destroying on of Europe's finest nations.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Glaurung
um, im not aware of any race related massacres nowadays. maybe in the 1800s...if you want a race related massacre, look at israel and palestine...

Shows what you know. The holocaust was in the 20th century. Fanatic goverments, such as the one in Iran and the Taliban are killing people because of their religion and their ancestor's religion.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is, however, about land, not about race. There are Israeli soldiers who are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and Druze. The Palestinians are people from all around the world that their ancestors lived here so they have many groups of people coming from different countries.

 

[IceBlaZe]

How about the 2 nazi kids that started shooting at entire school, or the nazi activists that opened fire on a jewish kindergarden...
is that not enough for you?
There is something about freedom of speech, but when people of all ages get access to this kind of info and incitement they dont have the kind of judgement to decide... When nazis walk freely on their own resort and the pastor makes a speech about the biggest ethnic clensing ever in history coming near it makes me worry... not that it will really happen, but kids, teenagers, and people generally hear that, and act to make it happen, and I think you should draw a line somewhere, the question is, where?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

"I hate Illinois Nazis!"

That said, I don't think the answer to Nazism is a crackdown on the 1st Amendment. If anything, freedom of information is the best possible weapon to bring to bear against these types.

Here in America, skinheads, Nazis, the KKK, and similar groups are regarded as nutcase cultists, not mainstream citizens. No one respects their opinions or supports their insane philosophies, and the very fact that they are free to spew their bile is all the defense this country needs against them.

The 1st Amendment does not cause massacres, any more than guns kill people. People cause massacres, people kill people. In America, if you kill someone, the local, state, and in cases federal governments will bring a vast array of investigative and law enforcement power to bear against you. If you are caught in the act, or found guilty after the fact, you will face prison or in some places the Death Penalty (I do not support the DP however).

The 1st Amendment guarantees that citizens have the right to speak their mind, as long as they do not incite others to riot or to commit crimes. Those who do incite criminal behavior face charges of various sorts, from contributing to the delinquency of a minor to conspiracy to commit murder.

You worry that someone might decide to act upon the words of others, so your answer is to stop any words from being spoken. And that, whether it is your intent or not, is what it would have to come down to. If there are to be laws governing the freedom of non-inciteful speech, who is going to decide what is illegal, and what is legal? These people are going to have the ultimate power over their fellow citizens, the power to dictate what those folk can and cannot know.

Knowledge is power, and freedom of knowledge is paramount to a free society. If knowledge is not free, then society is not free either. If the price of that freedom is Illinois Nazis, then so be it. They'll screw up somewhere down the line and get tossed in the clink without special laws being passed, or having everyone think the same thoughts. They're too stupid not to.

Racism is based upon two key components: fear and ignorance. Man fears that which he does not know. Man also prefers the company of his peers to those who speak a different language, read a different holy book, or salute a different flag. When the only company you keep is that which is known to you, you invite racism into your heart by making yourself ignorant.

Knowledge is the deadly enemy of racism and ignorance. You cannot fight racism with ignorance, you have to fight it with knowledge. Laws that prevent free speech assist racism and ignorance.

Wow. I didn't think I had that much to say about this.

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2
That said, I don't think the answer to Nazism is a crackdown on the 1st Amendment. If anything, freedom of information is the best possible weapon to bring to bear against these types.

Here in America, skinheads, Nazis, the KKK, and similar groups are regarded as nutcase cultists, not mainstream citizens. No one respects their opinions or supports their insane philosophies, and the very fact that they are free to spew their bile is all the defense this country needs against them.

I couldn't have said it any better.

Also, I see we have quite a few fans of "The Blues Brothers"

 

[Fadi]

These racist groups should be quelled like how Chinese governments (I dont support the CCP,but I hate cults!) quelled Falungong cult.These NAZI has potential to become Mr Bean Laden you know.Many US people cant see these cults can cause racist problems like in Middle East,even though somebody here say many people ignore them,but the bad guys will follow them.Jobless people will follow them
They can influence people to do crimes,In America guns are everywhere,I heard there a lot of murders in America and the police sometimes cant track down the culprit

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by Fayadi
In America guns are everywhere...

That's a myth.

I've never held a gun, never have seen one fired, nor do any of my friends have guns.

Besides, even if that's true...guns don't really matter.

Heart disease kills more Americans than murder and suicide, so are we going to ban hamburgers?

 

[Fadi]

My father's friend in New York was driving a car when somebody stopped his car,pointed gun at him and demanded for money.A country where a bad guy can posses gun is really unsafe.Have any of the Republican propose an idea to ban gun?I thought Republicans are the most conservative politicians in the country?